GIRL TALK with Joan Kim I GET REAL Ep. #16
소스 코드
- 게시일 2020. 10. 15.
- Finally! Joan Kim is back and ready to gab with the hosts all about the wonderful life and friendship of ~girls~. But not without the struggles that come with it, too. Let's get into formation and into the discussion!
💯GET REAL with Peniel, BM, and Ashley Choi💯
Listen to the FULL PODCAST episode at divestudios.io/getreal-listen/
Watch FULL VIDEO episodes of the podcast at / divepods
Join our Discord Server to discuss this episode with other DIVE Studios listeners at / discord
🙏DIVE STUDIOS🙏
Subscribe to our main KRplus channel at / divestudios
Get your official DIVE Studios Collection merchandise at shop.divestudios.io/
Support us on Patreon for exclusive content & merch discounts at / divestudios
🤳CONNECT WITH US ON SOCIALS🤳
Peniel: / btobpeniel
BM: / bigmatthewww
Ashley: / ashleybchoi
DIVE Studios:
Instagram: / thedivestudios
Twitter: / thedivestudios
Facebook: / thedivestudios
TikTok: vm.tiktok.com/wSBcLG/
Special thanks to Joan Kim!
/ @joanday
joanday?hl=en
#GETREAL #JoanKim #AshleyChoi #애슐리 #PenielShin #프니엘 #BTOB #BigMatthew #BM #KARD #Kpop #DIVEStudios - 엔터테인먼트
Enjoyed this video? LISTEN to this full episode of “Get Real” here: divestudios.io/getreal-listen/
Also, stay in touch with us on Instagram at instagram.com/thedivestudios/, Twitter at twitter.com/thedivestudios, and TikTok at vm.tiktok.com/wSBcLG/
Can you have BM growl on the mic ?
being a girl sucks. If I don’t dress up, I’m lazy and when I do, they ask me if I want to impress somebody 😒
I feel you 😔
Yep, pretty much sums up my life.
thats so true
Oh girl I get you
Totally relatable. Lyk Dude, what in the world do you want me to do?
The chemistry between everyone makes it such a comfortable space😌
You should see the wwjd episode with Eric and Kevin... it’s the opposite
Jamie and Eric be fighting and then there's Kevin who got "distracted" at the beautiful props HAHAHAHAHA
True
@@jisungshorsemask9898 Whos Kevin?
@@jisungshorsemask9898 wait, the opposite?
The more I get to know Matthew's personality the more I realize he's my ideal type.
omg SAME
Guuuurl saaaaame 🤤🥰
Ikr he's getting better and better like wth marry me
BRO SAME XD He's just so sweet and genuine. I love how honest and down to Earth he is.
Same here...
joan saying matthew was always friends with girls makes him so much more attractive lol
Fact jajaj
Yess lmao
is he ladies man?
Omg💯💯
Yoo!! About this.. Korean girls actually think being friends with more than 4 girls is a deal breaker.
18:31 BM: “yeah some of you might be surprised you’re favorite stan might not be who you think they are”
BM, you better spill the tea ☕️ 👀
@Arman_Tanzarian damn boy straight to the core😂😂😂
girl you cursed it 😭 the past three weeks have been,,
@@weiyu2111 girl I- i’m sorry, i have been crying for the past week too, it’s too much for me too 😭
Oof
wow this hit very close to home
HE TOUCHED THE BOTH YOU??!!? Matthew ready to fight for her girls!
What time?
@@nickiyaaddison3100 21:00
You mean Big Matilda
I think the fact that he has female members makes him much more protective than if he had just male members.
Co-ed groups are amazing 😊
Always a good time catching up with friends! Thanks for making this happen🖤
loved the episode!!
Already heard the podcast in Spotify but watched this just to see all your actual reactions. So fun, hope you can do this often. 😄
It was funny!!! I hope to see you in more episodes 🤞🏻
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Only!!!
We had a lot of fun too! You were really good and the best team!
Such a well-spoken and articulate guest, Joan!
"Imma kick yo ass... but I'm weak"
*Me.*
..... same
"Matthew just stop talking" 😂😂😂
LOL sometimes we as Men should not say some things to women, cuz they can get pretty triggered... But women are fun to be around though, just gotta be careful with what you say around em
@@droptopp3479 am woman and agreed lol thanks for this! I hate it when men thinks we, women, are all born to spoil (vice versa) and stuff like that like duDEEEE 👏 think 👏 again 👏
I'm glad joan & ashley snapped as it should ✨ but no offense to BM, I think he's just a sweet guy 😁 idk
@@paleroshy haha yehh ive had my fair share of moments just like BM, lol lesson learned. Men and women have different ways of articulating words but it always comes out wrong when we use the right/wrong words...
That was a funny moment though, at least BM is holding it down for us guys
Nah i just think, BM didn't explained himself enough. The girls understood his point soon after he explained it lol
@@droptopp3479 you mean that some girls are obnoxious and are just hard to have a decent, light-hearted conversation with
BM was so proud of the "urinals smell like piss" point that he made. Around 22:00 lol
23:30
Matthew getting more and more attractive the more he speaks
Women getting spoiled is a cultural thing. As a Latina with Mexican traditional parents, the men are valued more and are the spoiled ones. Some women are taught at a young age to cook and clean for the men and help them in any way they need it.
we need more men like BM 💕
Yup men are definitely the spoiled ones....most husbands expect the wife to be like their spoiling mothers. Well part of machismo
And that's on ✨México machista✨
uh thats awful
like imagine cooking for a MAN 🤢
Honestly in most of Asian culture I know are like this too. My friend's grandma literally mad at my friend's brother for helping her (my friend) to wash the dishes, "Just go sit it's her job"
18:35 I wish they could subtly drop hints on those who are actually problematic. And by problematic, I mean actually a horrible person. I never want to find out that I supported someone who is racist, sexist, manipulating, narcissistic, etc. That's a whole fear. 😭
Fr!!!! Alot of people do not know why but it's like giving money everyday and showing support to someone who does not care about you. Imagine staning Super Junior for 12 years only to find out they were racist or did not like hispanics, or where sexist. It is like being played/lead on. You spent your hard earned money on people who do not care about you.
They can't do that :( but honestly I totally understand you, I only Stan a group but I love them from thee bottom of my heart...and many times I have this though, like imagine if they're different off camera and everything we see it's just a show 😭😭😭
@@hasnae1498 That thought scares me 😭😭😭
That's scary, and it's not impossible 😭😭
Why fear lol
When I said earlier big Matilda and Penelope are girls like girls girls i wasn't lying and heres the prof
ON👏🏽THE👏🏽GIRL👏🏽TALK👏🏽
wait you mean the song?
@@srividyarajagopal1078 i think she was referring to the meme about BM=Big Mathilda, Peniel=Penelope
10:27 Joan’s and Ashley’s faces when BM was trying to explain “pampered” lmaooo
We love our strong independent women😌❤️
i feel like that is true tho, some women love to be pampered and at the same time, can be an independent woman 🤔
It was kinda funny how offended joan looked. Like girl... you can be pampered and be an independent woman at the same time. I love the feeling of being loved.
@@skdavidnba you can love being pampered but that doesn't mean girls in general get pampered more.
@@oopziedaizy yeah but that wasn’t what he said tho. it was that girls are more pampered
shifa oh yaa sadly though :( hoping to break this stereotype(?), it doesn't matter what gender you are, people love to be pampered once in a while 😂
matthew being the guy friend in the girl group explain a lot🥺
18:30
I want Matthew to spill all the tea he has on terrible people in the industry. I don't want to be out here supporting someone who's terrible in real life. 🙄
If any guys cat calls you, just ✨bark✨ at them
Omg why did i suddenly imagine myself doing that? 😆
tried it and they barked back 😭
Just say what they say to you back at them
I actually disagree with Korea getting more open minded, like 6 years ago we had shows like “we got married” or collabs between girls and boys that were idols, we use to see idols dating and it was totally okay, and now You can see how awkward they get when girls and boys are together THEY CANT EVEN LOOK AT EACH OTHER BRUHHH, I think Korea is actually getting more conservative
Yeah and when they are accidentally make an eye contact people assume they are dating..
Like what 😕
@@kanankiri8829 it's like can't anyone be just friends anymore obviously not due to some fans being delulu
But maybe the change happening is behind the scenes but we may never know but I trust them since they are in the industry
wtf nooo, it was only the fantasy side of it after that nobody dated and a lot of fans hated that show because they were crazy for their bias....
I don't think it's bc the Korean entertainment industry is becoming more conservative (I think it is actually becoming less conservative).
I think it's bc fans are becoming crazier, more demanding and obsessed with their idols. I don't know how it used to be in the past but I think with social media, the amount of content and activity they provide nowadays this behaviour of fans was increased. And the more fans are attached to their idols the more they will support them.
So the industry gives in and avoids any boy/girl interaction to please the fans.
Second person sending in their 'problem' sounds like they're talking about Matt 😂😂
Ashley is the "hii" type and Joan is the "bruhh" type of girl while peniel and bm are the "over protective bros" squadd i love themmm
33:23 I just died at peniel saying to bm : have you given birth before. 😂😂😂
I can tell by experience that being a girl in the engineering field is a challenge. I constantly have my skills and knowledge questioned, while people just assume my male colleagues must know what they're doing. In some cases, I was responsible for coding entire simulations of industrial processes and the client would only speak to my male colleagues, who didn't write a single line of code and were at the same level as I was. And I'm not even gonna start on the flirting.
That sounds bloody awful. You're very strong.
Oh my God. I'm so sorry to hear that. I have some female friends from engineering too in college. One time she got an A for exam, some of her male friends were always like "Oh you only got that bc the prof favor you or you plus points from him" like dudeeee she stay up all night studying together with you and me wtf????
Yeah but on the other hand, they want someone to understand their work and be attractive. But once they meet someone competent and attractive, they're not able to process it. As if everything they naively believed in got proven wrong.
@@beluugawhale Thank you for saying that. You're very sweet 😊.
@@margarete5920 Oh, I'm sorry to hear that also 😟. I feel bad for her. Unfortunately, it's pretty common for us. Some people just don't seem to be able to process that girls also can be good in math and science.
Women get too much criticism. They are given an expiration date, expected to have children and get married, they are always physically targeted by media with their unreasonable beauty standards....and in K-pop...if they make a mistake they are hunted down or canceled while the most male counter parts get away with actual scandals..double standards. Women are suppose to be submissive, dainty, supportive, loyal, a good cooker and cleaner 😒🤮
I hate the society not being a woman
Yes I wish they talked about these things as well and also went more into periods (the symptoms ect)
Matt's face of disgust of the shit girls go through says more then any words. I think the fact that he's so honest says so much. Also Peniel is also very sweet and always tries to understand. I love this podcast cause like in the title its so real haha.
14:05 the fact that Taemin is senior of all but at the same time younger than all pretty much explains how young he debuted
Did I’m the only one who see Matt doing for the girls and the gays that’s it??✨
Honestly Ashley just needs to make a audiobook cause like her VOICE yessss
seems like this environment is really healthy love to see more talks this between woman and men ✊🏽
honestly
13:40 ironic they mention age mattering for idols and meanwhile recently Refund Sisters came out haha, i know it's more of a project group but i feel like it is a perfect representation that age is just a number. But i agree that it's changing, and i already can pick out many female idols i know will be around killin it in the music field
Edit: I understand they already have a base built into their careers but regardless it’s a start somewhere
I agree but the Refund Sisters already hv a fanbase because they're not new most times you don't see new faces debuting at a late age
They got so much recognition now because they made their reputation in their younger days :(
For sure I still can’t believe Uhm Jung-hwa is 51??? I feel like because of how society views women with beauty standards, for those in the limelight as women age they lose their popularity and “desirability”- having that expiration date. I’m so glad they were able to be back on a big stage once more -dancing and being badass - and just have this immense popularity even when the first thing that we think when it comes to kpop girl groups are these young girls in their 20s and their teens.
I think a more fitting example (though not very old) is Mamamoo? They debuted marginally older than their peers (some already hitting their mid-twenties meanwhile the debuts often include teens to at best early 20s).
i can't still see the change with' age just numbers' in idol industry?? Refund Sisters is privilege, that's a real talk that is why society accepted them. They are stable and not even representing female idols. Actually, especially all the small company girlgroups and this slaps them because other idols' success is not the success of everyone. If every company debut a girlgroup that has 20s+ age members? It will never be the same as what they give attention and appreciation with Refund Sisters.
I honestly love this podcast and it is the only one i listen to, i love how honest bm, ashley, peniel, and guests (in this case joan) are. Also, thank you for talking about topics that we can relate to and even giving advice on it. It is amazing to know that you are not going through stuff alone. Thank you for always coming out with new content :)
if this week is girl talk is next week... guy talk? ppl have been asking to talk about toxic masculinity and other topics
Yes!!!!!
Yep i also want to have that
Try to cast Johnny and Mark from NCT! The views would go up and they’re genuinely really great entertainers
b l u e c a r a m e l i think they all would be getting payed, famous or not so much
@b l u e c a r a m e l facts
I don't think idols from bigger companies can come... The talk would be really limited bcs of their 'idol image'. And as much as i hate this it might be necessary(just for now). Since like Nct is already getting a lot of hate and one word they could say here would make it worse.
Şimal they have a lot of guests from jyp tho
@@ellavarga7610 If you're talking bout Jackson and Jamie, they already left jype
Bible study 😭😭 I’m so glad y’all are doing this as friends 💪🏻💪🏻
Tbh, i wasnt even a fan of the hosts before but i keep listening to this podcast since the topic is always interesting. now im a loyal viewer of ashley's youtube videos... 🥺 ashley is just adoreable 🥺
Sameee I knew Ashley from ladies code and now I’m a new fan of Kard and Peniel
I only knew BM before.
Now I'm starting to get into BTOB.
Well to fill it up, i knew peniel since i was a fan of btob. So from him i got to knowbm and ashley
Yeah I'm not a fan of any of them in particular but the podcasts are good
now we gonna see peniel‘s barking under some idols tweets😭😭
"some of you will be surprised your favourite stan/bias might not be who you think they are" - BM
half a year later and all these articles about idols being bullies and stuff in the past are coming out
Wew. Peniel going on a bible study. Now melodies know why we have Angel peniel on the group. Oops ilhoon is shaking he's the original Angel haha
Hahahaha ikr
Yeah caught that too lol
Omg yesss that was sooo endearing💗💗💗
Im happy to know that Peniel still did the things he have to as a Christian even if he's a celebrity now. 😭
@@usandyouyouandwebtobandmelody yeah the evil maknaes should go with him hahaha just kidding.
i love how ashley got so defensive and heated when they talked about toilets lol
As a young girl I was constantly asked/told to change or correct my behavior and my actions for reasons I didn't always understand, nor were people always able to explain it to me either. Looking back I realize those things were required of me simply because of the fact that my body was changing. There's soooo much to say about what that does to one's psyche and how that stuff gets in the way of how girls interact with others and the world.
When peniel started barking my neighbour’s dog started barking for 5 mins straight😃😂
No one:
Literally no one:
Ashley: I MUMMIFY THE TOILET 🚽
"Not tryna crush your dreams, but just being real." Gotta love BM
the way ashley and joan said “eXuSe mE?” and “dO yOu?” both at the same time 🤣 sounds like they said the same thing lmao
“Bible study” 🙏🏻
dude i love ‘Get Real’ a lot omg
BM = Best Music
(Comment credits belong to the one who commented it on Medication)
I AGREE with Joan, the whole time during the mail description I was like "this sounds like Matt" ha ha. He just seems like everything in the description! Also this episode just made me yearn for having/finding a good group of friends like this once quarantine is over :*(
Hope u will have a good group of friends. :)
Me too. I also love the healthy relationship between girls and guys.
I didnt know that Matthew and Joan went to high school together?!! That's so cute omg
I can 100% vouch for the fact that womens bathrooms are like 90% of the time messier than mens bathrooms. I clean public bathrooms during the weekends and the womens bathroom is always in the worst state. My biggest pet peeve is when women intentionally put their used pads or tampons into the metal can(we have one in each stall) and not the bag in it. Like, DON'T move the bag out of the way, it's there for a reason the point is that you put used sanitary products into the trash bag instead of hiding and stocking that stuff underneath it. I honestly have no idea why people do that. It makes the smell worse and it's just extremely unhygienic.
Well, I worked in a restaurant and I can say why men’s bathroom are often cleaner : because they don’t use toilet paper + they don’t wash their hands very often too soooo yea.
BECAUSE WE MUMMIFY IT
Ashley: ..What its like being a girl in 2020
Peniel: I don't know
🤣🤣
i love how receptive and open minded all of them are ugh what a safe podcast this is 😭
Their topic is always relatable that I didn't notice its almost an hour long.
P.S. I really love their friendship.
About the male/female friendships: Men are more loyal than women - to a fault. Men will keep around toxic friends out of a skewed sense of loyalty. I had an ex who was still good friends with the dude his previous Gf had cheated on him with, even said it was cool if I hung out with him ALONE while we were dating. Another ex kept around a guy who had essentially sexually assaulted him when they were younger, simply because he “apologized”. This dude was also accused of physically abusing his ex Gf, and my bf at the time just let it slide? Huge red flags, and it seems to be a common pattern amongst men.
In contrast, most women will cut you off if they feel slighted. If the friendship is not emotionally fulfilling anymore, or if they feel they’ve been double crossed or treated poorly, women will end it. This can breed its own issues, but this is just what I’ve seen amongst me and my friends.
subjective, but i see your point. ig it is case by case
Well it’s not being « loyal », no one should keep toxic friends tho !
I believe there comes a sense that we give that toxic friend a chance to change, we men are naturally resilient.
As soon as Joan mentioned how the guy the girl had a crush on in the message sounded like Matthew, I cracked up bc while Ashley was reading the description I didn't even look up from my homework and went "so Matt?" LMAOO
I love being a women, even during the time of the month. But there is the pressure of marriage, kids, being in relationships (always being asked why I'm single & not dating), owning my body as far as birth control & who I choose to be with sexually. We have a lot of power ladies!!!
For Taemin, he has said many times that he was born for this and is lucky to have found this career that he loves from an early age. Let me know if I’m wrong
Yess I feel like since he started so young, that’s basically his lifestyle. So his perspective about his life and Career is different from us who never started young or lived a life like his. Everyone’s life and path is different. It could be a shock to us that he started his Career so Young, but he was meant to start at that time
i finally found a comment about this,, thank you for sharing. i think even though he started really young, its also truly nice bc the path is what he loves. 💖 this situation varies per case
He’s definitely grateful for the opportunity to debut young and it’s worked out great for him. But that doesn’t mean if didn’t affect him negatively in some ways too, some NCT members and other idols who started out young have talked about how they treasure their members a lot bec they’re the closest (or even only) friends they have. Since they never really had many chances to socialise with others of their age.
Even though there are some negative aspects about it, he probably doesnt say it
'Joan doesn't need protection, other people need protection from Joan' 😂😂 We Stan!
I’m not going to lie i really love listening to your guys voices. Idc even when you’re being rowdy and goofy and what ever idk it just makes me happy. Maybe because y’all are friends so it feels so natural and I feel like I’m hanging out with my friends (In my dreams lol). IDK you guys are all great and I’m stupid happy you 3 started this podcast. And I hope it keeps going for a good while.
Guy’s convo: background noise 😂🤣
bm is literally my ideal type--his personality is so attractive and the way he carries himself wowwwwwwww
Peniel calling the rest stop an “oasis” 😂 BRUH UR MIDWEST IS SHOWING
I had a guy friend like Matt, I knew that he is the solution to all my "boy and love" problems. But I don't think it's the right idea to get in a relationship with my best friend. Because it means I'm gonna lose my best human diary since I can't talk to him about what I truly felt about the relationship when we have arguments and it scares me a lot.
Queen idols like Jessi, BoA, Lee Hyori & Uhm Jung Hwa are definitely challenging the norm and still kicking it in their 30's 40's 50's
Talk about kpop fanfictions!!!! + shipping. Do idols actually read them???
Some of them are annoyed about that actually, mostly shipping. Kinda awkward.
Yep, i want that too
I want them to make shippers realize it's not a good thing at all
I mean overly shipping
Matt is the guy we friendzone....he is the guy you talk to when your mans mess you up😂🤣
Matt is a brother
Peniel for the last 15 episodes: *You just have to have THAT mindset*
Peniel in this episode: *um.. i don’t know if mindset will help in that situation..*
But really, That proves how wise he is! I truly admire his way of thinking things through
(He wasn’t in ep 12-14.. but you know what I mean)
Thank you for producing this podcast... it genuinely makes my day every time I listen. Let’s KEEP IT REAL 🖤
i love how they exert effort to share their perspective, it's comfortable and i love it
each episode makes me feel so comfortable like im listening a convo between friends! i love you guys
We demand two eps in a week!!!!!
Love u guys💖💖
Peniel going on a bible study. No wonder i feel like Peniel is my soulmate...that literally in every episode with get real he is speaking my mind. Like we have the same mindset...That explain everything...hahaha! I like him more because of that.
@@sanjananoronha9680 7:12
@@itsmenob2x20 thanks ✨
It was so great having Joan join for a few episodes! Hearing a genuine friend group discussing these kind of topics is so reassuring and encouraging to me. You all are doing a great job with this podcast!
I love this podcast!!!! I listen to it on podcast first and then, watch and listen it on KRplus :)) I listen and watch it many times! It's fun and relaxing💜 Can't wait to next one!!
i love these four! honestly i’ll listen/watch them as soon as the episodes are released 💚 i love their friendship and it makes me feel as if i’m hanging out with friends and talking about life
please make more episodes with joan!!! i love her points of view and opinions about certain topics
i love BM, ashley, and peniel and now joan, thank you for giving us such quality and funny content
I love the fact that Joan is a guest on dive studios !! You guys sure make us comfortable and the topic is always interesting and relatable!
I loved this episode ❤️ thank you for making my day
Listening to dive studios podcasts is really fun while I'm doing my school stuffs. Love it ❤
I'm GLAD BM said what he said 18:30 REAL TALK!! 👏
I really enjoyed the conversation today. Good job guys!
I’m just truly in love with this podcast and all the guests they bring in
Thank you for making 2020 a lot better for a lot of us 🥺❤️
Omg that question about friendships with females and males I can totally relate to that I’ve had so many friendships in the past like a lot that I’ve lost due to so many of the factors you’ve mentioned and their was no real genuine connection and now my circle is like really small I still find myself now questioning my friendships too I don’t know if I’m overthinking it but it’s definitely different and their busy now doing their own things it just made me think I love all your guys chemistry and vibes you guys made me laugh so much and really tunning in today I love that Joan was there twice now with you guys enjoyed today’s episode and the only podcast I listen to these days legit ❤️❤️❤️
Oooh I really wanted the full episode of this one🔥
A third episode with Joan please! Love Y'all!
I already listened to this but I had to comeback and watch it too. Bruhhh after seeing it Joan's and Ashley's vlogs I was sooo hyped for this episodes. All I want for quarantine is too have Joan and Ph-1 permanently here🤧🤧🤧🤧
This is my favorite episode so far. I laughed so many times.
Ooh and I love how peniel wanted to continue the convo 🤣 I was super interested about that topic " girls and boys can't be friends"
Also I like how awkward it was when peniel talked about going into women's bathroom 🤣🤣🤣
BM sounds like such a big brother tho 🤩
And Joan sounds like such a great big sister.
Really enjoyed this episode! Love the energy 🤩
About the confidence... I have a friend who practices taekwondo and she stayed paralyzed when she was robbed one night, like 2 years ago. She told me later that she was mad at herself for a few months, because she kept thinking “how did I let that happen? I’m supposed to be strong and have the right moves to defend myself!? How did _that_ happened to _me!?_ ”
😢
Because she was told that that training should have been enough. Its helpful but fear is bigger than that. 😌
BM’s friends are so lucky to have him as a friend. it warms my heart how he cares for them and protects them. 🥰🥺
This is seriously the only podcast I like. You guys are great, it feels like just having a conversation with a group of friends. 🖤
loved the episode!! Joan should come on more often, loved the 4 of you together!!!
This is the most millennial dive podcast so far 😂😂
Liking even before hitting the 2 minute mark just cause i srsly love this group. Joan needs to be a mainstay.
Lowkey wanted Joan to be part of them. The chemistry that they have is just so good
guys i have recently just discovered your podcast and i am falling in love with your episodes day by day, thank you for getting real and opening deep conversations, most importantly being vulnerable with each other.. Keep it up ! I am a podcast owner as well by the way and wish to do a collab with you someday !
I love this podcast from today. This very DAY.
I love that its not exclusively Asian/American content and i can also relate as an African❤️❤️
LMAO BM summing it up to “we’re useless” LOLL😂😂 They always ALWAYS gets me laughing everytime!! AAND I LOVE IT😍🥰
BoA was thirteen when she debuted with ID; Peace B twenty years ago! Was her young age marketed differently than young kpop groups/soloists debuting now? I remember her age as..."look how hard-working and talented she is" more than it was a primary profit-driver for SM. But, she inevitably set a precedent for SM's foray into the Japanese market (even more so than SES).