Confusing ending sends Washington to LLWS, a breakdown

Thing is U3 came off the line, and we can not see in any of the replays if the home plate umpire had stepped up on to the line when he made the fair point (i.e. called it fair).
9.04 - (c) If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in the best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.

In the case of International Tournament Games Williamsport has the final word. The review from Williamsport on the video review was fair ball.

@@brentsmithline3423 The problem isn't different calls/decisions. If any ump makes a call that stops play/is a dead ball, then that's it. It's like an inadvertent whistle in football. Many years ago in a P&R softball game, we had runners on 1st and 2nd. Ball was hit to the SS, and our runner going to 3rd jumped over the ball. It didn't hit him, but even though the field ump was closest, the home plate ump yelled "dead ball, the runner's out". The SS went ahead and threw to 2nd, and they called the runner from 1st out. Then, they threw the ball to the 3B, who tagged our guy who was walking off the field, because he had heard the "dead ball/runner's out" call. The field ump said to the home plate ump the ball did not hit our runner, so the home plate ump first said it was a double play - force & tag. We went ballistic! I firmly believe we should have had the bases loaded, since they admitted the ball didn't touch the runner, and the home plate ump finally, grudgingly admitted he did call "dead ball". Sure it was a bad call, and play shouldn't have been stopped, but that's irrelevant - it was stopped. In the end, I think they decided to call our runner to 3rd out after all - frankly at that point I think they didn't care about the rules, and were "just trying to be fair". No pun intended...

Holy crap! I had to look up to see if I was reading my own post.
Sing it, brother!

This is EXACTLY right.

Even if the ump called fair, the 3rd base ump clearly called for the play to stop and the ball to be dead. Foul and TIME are the same signal. dead ball, advance the runners, no run scored.

Do you even watch Major League ball? Those guys get paid, get it wrong, then they send it to professional video watchers in NY, and then they still get it wrong

@@XQUEZZYX Little League has a specific rule about this exact situation when one ump signals fair and the other calls foul. They should have just enforced their own rule. That's the grounds to overturn it, not where the ball landed by watching replay

@@matthewdejesu2115 so that makes it ok?

I would have overturned it based on the fact that's it's the 3rd base umpires call and he called it foul. When he did that, the defense stopped playing the ball.

I guess you could say it’s inconclusive but shouldn’t they at least make the runner go back to third?

Little League Rules Interpretation Manual covers this: "If a batted ball is inadvertently called "foul" and it touches the ground in live ball territory it is irrevocably foul and the ball is dead." (Instructor Comments, page 34). "Irrevocably foul" was revoked this play.

This is correct. Since when is a called foul ball reviewable???

@@jedlink136 Since they thought they can revoke the unrevokable.

@@ingiford175 You keep typing this, but the batted ball was inadvertently called "fair" and it touched down in foul ball territory.

Good. They will get screwed over repeatedly as adults too. Might as well learn it now.
The only kid I feel bad for is the one who screwed up the catch fo the home run. He could have prevented all of this from happening.

I trust you. You're right.

I don’t know you, but I trust you. You seem like a trustworthy person, for some reason.

@@B3Band sorry you lost in little league bro

joe is correct,where in normal circumstances the runner on first at best would be at third base !!!!!!!!!!!! it was a fair ball and it should be second and third !!!!!!!!!!!!!! the most mistakes an umpire will make would be at third base because there is NOT AS MUCH ACTION compared to first base second base and home plate !!!!!!!!!!! although in little league where you have 2 different opinions from 2 umpires it is rules a foul ball I THINK !!!!!! the bottom lien is that if that lefty pitcher fielded the ball cleanly from 2 batters ago oregon would still be playing !!!!!!!!!!

The coach may not have protested that part? But umpires on the field should have ruled foul due to 3b umpire calling foul. that's not reversible AND the defense stopped. No reason to assume the runner scores from 1st if they didn't stop playing due to the foul call.

Looks to me like the 3B ump just decided to completely bitch out and concede to the home plate ump's call and as the other comment said the coach very well may not have noticed the timid "Foul" call by the 3B ump and just never protested that part. Once the coach wasn't even trying to protest that, the umps were probly like "whew he didn't notice that part...let's just move on to the review"

Exactly. There is a rule and they didn’t follow it.

Right? The league should ban all of the umpires and officials involved from being involved again. It's just not fair to the kids. I don't care if they are volunteers, they are completely ignorant of the rules on one of the highest stages, that's not acceptable.

It’s insane to me that these kids play all year without reviewing calls and then get to review calls during this event

correct, you never say "fair"

It's like a player being called down in football or a player being out in basketball. If any ref calls that, its just unsurmountably illogical for it to be able to be overruled. Once those calls happen, it instantly affects any continuation of play.

There isn’t an audible call required, but you can absolutely say it. There’s nothing that says you shouldn’t voice the call.
On top of that, instead of just sticking his hands up like he was calling time, you’re taught to point either fair or foul and give a more definitive signal with your hands/arms.
Edit: Since so many people want to “gotcha!” me on this, I’m not saying he should have said “fair ball”. I’m saying he should have said “foul”. You say foul on that call. I’m aware you don’t vocalize the word “fair”.
If blue says “foul” the confusion is minimized a bit. He still shouldn’t be holding his hands up, he should be pointing to the foul side of the baseline.

Never yell fair. Just point.

yep

$25/ game. That's meal money. It's part of the expenses for travelling once Regionals-level tournaments get underway That's not being "paid." Just just the league paying for their own expenses. These guys are volunteers, plain and simple. And this is one of the lowest possible levels of play in baseball.
They're also human. Even MLB umpires make mistakes. So you can sit down and stfu.

@@Nihilianth they make a lot more than $25 a game.
They pay $50 for minors, $100 for majors in local little leagues. And these are little league major World Series. I’m sure it’s at latest $100-$150 per ump.
Not saying it’s a lot. But they still got to make the right call, or stand up for there call. 3rd base up called foul. It was his call.

@@Nihilianth holy crap batman! Anger issues much? Relax tiger!

@@larryandrews696 Me? Wait. You're talking to ME!? Gtfo, I'm not the one bitching about VOLUNTEER umpires who are humans working a low-level sports league that can make mistakes, and crying about!
You can sit down and stfu as well, boy.

@@nathanrobertson3349 False. It's per diem. It's $25-$50. High school umps will make $100+.
This is literally meal money. It isn't "pay.' It's the league paying it's own expenses, that requires humans to work their schedules games, and humans require food. Kind of like the league will help the city taxpayers pay the electric bill for the lights. Or a landscaper employinf a grounds crew to care for the grounds. Most of whom themselves are also volunteers.
Again, the entire point is that it's a non-profit CHILDREN'S league. Nobody making money off of this thing. It's for the kids to grow up, learn a sport, learn about teamwork, sportsmanship, etc. It's not a money-making business full of professionals.

especially after seeing how poorly Washington performed in the LLWS... not meant to be a jab at kids (not Washington's fault what happened) but I can imagine what the Oregon team players might have felt

The ball hit the ground immediately after it was hit

Agreed, even if the foul gesture was inadvertent, you can't allow the play to continue after deceiving the fielders.

@@iqXims But the 3b ump waited until the ball passes 3b before he called it foul - ruling it foul and the play dead. Right?

@@truegret7778 correct. I'm not sure how the ball was ruled fair, when 3B umpire signals foul. As the OP said, even IF the ball was FAIR, when the umpire signals FOUL, the ball and entire play is dead.
Whether the ball was fair or not.
It makes no sense how they ruled this fair, personally feel like those kids were robbed.
Yeah they still might have lost but they completely took away their opportunity to complete the game fairly.
Bad call, should have been overruled.

@Brooke Wilcox - I am surprised, even "little league" none of the coaches seem to have made that point or recited this rule. And am especially surprised (again, even little league and the umps being "volunteers") the umps did not know of it - seems that that is potentially a frequent situation. Hopefully lessons learned at all levels.

it's always the 3b ump's call on that one. Some people think it's the home plate umpire's call. Like no way lol

I thought it was always the home plate ump's call on on fair/foul calls before the ball crosses the bag?

@@josephmorneau4339 Yes. thats if it stops or is touched prior to passing the bag. Once it breaks the 'glass pane' (front part of the bag) it becomes U3's call.

To piggy back off this, I umpired the Canadian Little league nationals nearly a decade ago, and didn't know 4 man ump who had the foul call and called a fair ball that the base umpire yelled foul. We met as umps, the base ump said it was his call, I said my bad, and the foul call was upheld. This call should have 100% been foul on the play. There is no verbal call if it is fair, however the umpire will yell loudly foul if it is out of play. The replay looks like the ump didn't verbally call it, so maybe he got crossed, or he didn't have the stones to overrule the plate ump.

Yeah, I'm certainly no baseball rules expert, but it would seem common sense that if 2 umps ever disagree on a live call that the preference should go to the ump who is closer to the play which would have been the 3b umpire.

ayo i JUST SAID THAT LMAO
"ayo that first basemen 😮👏"
one league i played in the best team had a 1st basemen who did the SPLITZ for fun lmao

100%

You get what you pay for lol. And don't let it come down to that point.

@@UnknownUnknown-tu3be yea true and who knows if that would have made a difference in the game but I've had plenty of heartbreakers and bad calls so when you put both together it just makes everything feel worse

9.04 - (c) If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in the best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.
In the case of International Tournament Games Williamsport has the final word. The review from Williamsport on the video review was fair ball.

@@brentsmithline3423 that is very true and how it should go within the umpiring crew and everyone and at least they did the right thing and did the review and it confirmed it

you are 100% correct

They only have 3 umpires in little league world series so sometimes the 3rd base ump will need to go towards 2nd base. in a 3 persion umpire crew, fair foul is always done by the home plate umpire has he s the only one to guarantee see it.

You can yell "foul" but not "fair? Fair can be confused with foul but foul can't be confused for fair? It makes more sense that hand gestures would be the way to go. Either way, the 3B ump should have taken charge and shut the 3 base coach down. His theatrics franticly waiving the runner home won Washington the game.

This was a 4 man crew. Even if it wasn’t, if the 3rd base umpire is in position D (behind 3rd base) it’s still his call if the ball goes beyond the base.

@@oj1979 you’re wrong dude

That's why every umpire who has any brains has transitioned to club ball. We get paid more than minimum wage most of the time, and get free hotels and travel money to go on trips. I've been asked to go to Vegas a few times to umpire and have gotten everything paid for and have come back with about $500 each time

You get that the circumstances are probably different, yeah?

@A Mess of Things I hear that, my friend. I'm a world-class researcher, and it's impossible to conclude anything other than that most people make most of their major, life altering decisions, with everything from poor to absurd information. It's the saddest thing. We just chuck the next generation into the world and let them, too, find it out all out far, far too late.

Hardly scummy. It would have been dumb if he knew the ump called it foul, because the umps would have just told the base runners to go back, and now your runners are gassed for no reason.

@@crusherven They're 12, they don't get gassed.

Was he looking away on purpose tho??

@David Gillespie, well said. I've also seen horrible balls and strikes calls in the other regionals. In one game, a called strike three was on the far side of the opposite batters' box. Yes, they're volunteers, but that doesn't excuse calls like the Washington/Oregon game. And for LL Baseball to contradict a written rule is an abomination.

There’s a tremendous amount of nepotism and exclusion in the ranks of LLI umpires. The same guys do it and wear it as a badge of honor completely irrespective of their competence as an umpire.

The umpire I had when I was a kid almost 20 years ago is still going. To this day one of the best umps I've seen across all divisions. It blows my mind that he's never even been to a state tournament, but thats just how it goes I guess.

I heard years ago if an individual wanted to umpire in San Bernardino, Ca sectional games they would need to work on the grounds crew for a few years make friends with the umpire in chief. this is their selection process .

@@SteveHartz so, like umpiring at all levels

Correct and you definitely can't allow the run to count that's just crazy

@@RobertJones-bm2bq yup it either should’ve been runners at 1st and 2nd or at the very least runners at 2nd and 3rd

Awful play by the angels defense smh

Idk what you're talking about, but I want another breakdown, so yes.

what happened?

It’s easy to look up, don’t be lazy.

@@TheyDontKnowYouExist angels had like 3 errors ssmh

Little League Rules Interpretation Manual covers this: "If a batted ball is inadvertently called "foul" and it touches the ground in live ball territory it is irrevocably foul and the ball is dead." (Instructor Comments, page 34). "Irrevocably foul" was revoked this play.

Thank you for actually being a good coach. Sportsmanship and respect for the rules and others is the most important lesson to be learned in youth sports. So many parents just want to try to live out another high school baseball career through their kids and it is beyond sad.

​@@ingiford175 You keep typing this, but the batted ball was inadvertently called "fair" and it touched down in foul ball territory.

Oregon did write a formal appeal,and apparently LL International said the equivalent of "we fucked up, and you still lost. Sorry"

And the lost the appeal because the reality in this case it wasn't called foul ultimately. Rule 2.00 instructor's comment "If a batted ball is inadvertently called “foul”, and it touches the ground in live ball territory it is irrevocably foul and the ball is dead." is overruled because you had a fair ball called on the field as well by pu. Persuant to 9.04 (c) "If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in the best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made." In this case they got together and decided that fair was correct call and that was upheld on review.
Sucks that this happened with conflicting calls but the rules were applied correctly for what happened and the correct call made.

@@duelist301 that's a terrible PU then. How are you on that big of a power trip to overule someone else's call? I mean any common sense says if you make someone else's call on accident, and you have different calls, whoevers call it should have been is the one to go with. Plus the 3B umpire was absolutely terrible letting the play go. You call it dead the ball is dead. Someone on another thread posted that rule, but it's a basic rule in any form of baseball. So glad for club ball, and JBO so I never have to see little league in NW Oregon.

@@rileyesmay It doesn't have to be a power trip at all. 99% of the time with LL it's a one or two man crew meaning that the plate pu is the one making that call in any other case. So it's easy to see and say his instincts took over. And common sense says that you should want to get the call right.

@@duelist301 well, if thats true, which I still question, then they still screwed up because it was NOT the plate umpires call. At worse, get together, and realize the calling umpire(3B) called it foul. The most believable and fair thing to do at that point was to live with the "foul" call and play on. Nobody wouldve questioned it

Plus it's a regional championship, not some random game in June or a house league game.

If going to hire a rules analyst to be at the game why not professional umpires instead of volunteers?

They’re not volunteers exactly, I mean they get paid but they’re probably highly looked at

@@tendyedits1272 They are totally volunteers at that level. Their flight and hotel is covered, even food, but otherwise volunteers.

@@johnlafleur5622 I promise you are they aren’t....
they get on out a schedule, they get paid for the games. That’s not volunteering... been officiating 5 years, yes we volunteer our time, but we still get paid.
Our flights and hotels are covered year round, we still get paid for the games.

Little League Rules Interpretation Manual covers this: "If a batted ball is inadvertently called "foul" and it touches the ground in live ball territory it is irrevocably foul and the ball is dead." (Instructor Comments, page 34). "Irrevocably foul" was revoked this play.

No justice, Go Washington!!!

I think you got it mixed. Oregon was the team who won. Justice for Washington?
Edit: I got it mixed up. Other way around, my bad.

@@professortree9387 no washington won title is incorrect

Correct, Washington lost via error by umpires.
Edit: correction Washington won

@@America-First2024 Washington won the game and will be going to the LLWS…

No you didn't. . stop trying to get likes

@@jamedlock83 Are you flirting with me?

I remember that

Well that's life

I played in like 20 Little League World Series when I was a kid.

Washington lost

It's confusing because the losing team chants "Washington" in the last huddle before shaking hands, so I think they chanted the other team's name out of respect? idk lol

@jomboy you gotta fix your title dude! Bend is in Oregon and they lost

yeah washington won, i think it’s a sportsmanship thing. you see a ton of that in little league. cheer them on throughout williamsport i guess

@@darshannautiyal92 Obviously it was Washington who won. They're the home team and scored with a walkoff

Yeah that’s what I was thinking, but at the same time, certainly Jomboy realizes that, right? You’ll see a bunch of foul balls every game where a dude will pull a fly, ball into the seats down the rf/lf line cause he’s out in front. A bunch of those will be hooking, so they’ll pass the base in fair territory, but they’re still foul

...umpires should have called dead ball and reset, that simple, but the explanation confused me, the ball hit the dirt near home fair, the line is in, then on the first bounce went four but that does not matter. Had the ball not taken the first bounce fair, then any ball past the third base that lands foul once past the base is foul, that bounce the third base ump called foul is then a foul. The commentator said the ball can curve around third and still be fair? I don't think so if it first lands in foul territory. But maybe some off LL rule, but not when I coached....

@@wokewokerman5280
Jomboy was thinking/looking for ways how the home plate "might possibly have being correct".
What he was wondering is:
- If the ball first hit the chalk line ('still' fair - but still undecided because it depends on how the ball travels after that)
- Bounce into fair while in mid-air,
- Spins/curves while in mid-air,
- Passes over 3B in fair,
- Curves outward towards foul, and therefore lands foul PAST the 3B bag...
in such a unique set of circumstances, then yes that batted ball would have being fair.
Even Jomboy thought this was an extremely unlikely set of circumstances. And we don't have the correct camera angle to see that.
Most likely what happened was:
- Batted ball hits the chalk,
- Bounces in a straight line towards the foul side of 3B,
- So at the time of "crossing 3B bag", the ball was already on foul side. Foul ball.
I was commenting under another thread, that under 8.02(a) "Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul... is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgement decisions."
(In other words, this 'fair or foul' was not open to appeal.)
If there is a conflicting fair/foul call, technically that needs a consultation (amongst the umpires); that's not an appeal.
And since in situations of such conflicting call, the 1B/3B umpire would be in a better location than the umpire-in-chief, such call usually just follows what the 1B/3B umpire says, without needing all umpires to physically get into a huddle.
How this even went to the point of 'appeal' is bogus. 3B umpire called it foul, so foul it is.

@@reallifeengineer7214 you said "- Curves outward towards foul, and therefore lands foul PAST the 3B bag...
in such a unique set of circumstances, then yes that batted ball would have being fair." Never in any game I've seen! I've seen pros hit with so much spin the ball was yards fair over the bag but then curved into the stands - and you say that's fair! The ball in air has to hit inside the line past the bag.

@@wokewokerman5280
You can look into the following situation:
Batted ball, while in air, is still in fair territory as it went past 3B.
After passing 3B, while still in air, turns into foul territory and passes the foul line. When it lands, it landed in foul territory.
This is a different situation from:
A batted ball, immediately after leaving the bat/contact, is on the foul territory while in-air.
The difference is:
At the time when the ball crosses 3B, was it in the fair side or foul side - this determines foul or fair.
What the ball does AFTER it passes 3B, becomes irrelevant.
Yes we all watched lots of MLB games where a major hit flies into the stands in the “foul / outfield”. Those balls were already foul before crossing 1B or 3B.
I admit this is an area I was super confused about for several years. Had to check with son’s team coach several times, lookup the OBR several times…

@@reallifeengineer7214 ...yes, and I always enjoyed the situation when one of my players on a short ball rolling down the line was too late for the play so then watched the ball roll until it hit a stone or foot depression then tumbled over the line fowl! And the ump would then yell "FOUL ball" and the relief on the fielders face was precious!

But it let another team go, so that is good. 😍

@@Mike-cu5ih no lol.

@@pfanzers actually, yes 👍

@@Mike-cu5ih actually, no, we'll never know which team truly deserved to go on to the Little League world series.

@@1Outis1 Agreed. But a team is going, so that is good. And there can be no debate.
Baseball is great. And there can be no debate.

Because that Ump's idol...
Joe West.

Yup and it's in the rulebook nothing can happen after dead ball. I'm equally disappointed in the review system calling the run in because it was solely their judgement the kid would have scored without a doubt. I don't personally think he could have for sure based on when the ball was foul and the kid was probably one step off first base. I think most of us would hsve said 3rd base would have been for sure. That is given they even looked at/knew the rule that the ball is automatically dead if an umpire calls it dead

TBH, sports success is FAR MORE OFTEN decided by when you mature and nothing else. If you mature early, you'll likely be good at sports (Because you're bigger/faster/stronger than anybody else long before talent really comes into play) so long as you're decently coordinated.

@@reeepingk And also your birthdate. If you are born in January, you are far more likely to make it in hockey than if you are born in December

@@connorwelcher For likely the same reasons. Skill really doesn't come into play until probably late high school. It's only then that the smaller, more skilled kids can shine. Although that's rare because if they were smaller to begin with they likely weren't trained in sports as much. I find it funny when parents push their kids SO HARD at the age of freaking like... 8. Chill out people, he hasn't even hit maturity yet.

but doesnt matter cause it was a foul ball. the ump at home plate was wrong, zero video evidence to support it too. terrible job LLWS

Incorrect Sir. In a 4 man umpire crew, the 3rd base umpire has any ball over the bag fair/foul call. Home plate umpire has any ball up to 3rd base.

I vote for dog.

The batman

Doesn't take much to make it. PDX has JBO so a lot of us don't even play LL in Oregon

No second game. This was the championship game. Winner goes on to Williamsport. It's unfortunate that this game ended the way it did, it's going to be talked about for some time...until another controversial event happens. Probably at the LLWS.

According to what others have posted for rules, it looks like the PU was on a power trip and potentially on purpose called it fair, than when they got together overuled the calling officials call(3B umpire had the call for this) and resulted in him making a call he shouldn't have. Absolutely terrible. So glad for club ball and not having this garbage

they did call it foul

don't feel bad for the umpires. They're the ones who messed it up big time

@@davidriedy5977 they’re volunteers

@@logansarsland1766 They get paid.

@@logansarsland1766 they're volunteers in the sense that they don't get paid to umpire these specific regional games. But they don't get these regional games unless they have years and years of trained experience. They umpire other rec, travel, and high school leagues, and they get paid. So yeah, they fucked up. They should have known better. They're volunteers and don't get paid, but they have plenty of umpiring experience. They aren't just random people taken off the street with zero experience

That's very true.

and you forgot that theyre "volunteers" lol

Sucks to live in Bend and have LL. JBO is way better in PDX area! It's actual high school baseball rules unlike LL modified and paid umpires so we get a lot of high school umpires who know their stuff doing youth games. Either way a lot of the kids are doing club ball since its more competative and MLB rules. I've got to umpire some of the bend AIA and CO Crush teams and they are really good. Had a club team in Salem this year where a kid hit a home run over a 330ft fence, statcast would have it at 350ft+ home run. That's far enough to go out in a big leage park! You don't see that in local leagues anymore!

Imo, the HP umpire has a better angle on balls hit down the base line that the 1st/3rd umps unless they're standing on the baseline.

How in the world could you watch that video a miss the 3rd base umpire standing right on the line?

@@Eric-vm2ii - How in the world can you make that comment when he's not standing right on the line at all.
I define "right on the line" as standing on the chalk, which he clearly isn't. He's a couple steps on the foul side of the line. However, I'll grant you that the HP ump isn't exactly on the line either

@ Lee Blake The dude’s left foot is exactly on the line until he takes one step left and back to let the ball clear. His mechanics were perfect until he lets the play continue.
But sure, let’s have the guy that’s over 60 feet away, with a worse angle, and dealing with a mask make the call…

@@Eric-vm2ii - Love to see what video you're watching. The guys foot is never anywhere near the line. When the camera cuts to the 3rd base view at 0:1:35 (which is the first time we see him) he's taking a step TOWARD 3rd base. Literally the closest he ever gets to the line while on camera is immediately AFTER he's signaled foul.

Yep. My first argument with the umpires would have been that the call on the field should be foul, and if the other coach is asking to review if it is fair, that is one thing.

Perfectly stated, Brad. How did they claim that "the call on the field was fair". THE CALL, is the 3b ump's to make and he signaled foul. THAT should have been "the call on the field" that they would need to overturn.

The home plate umpired overruled the call by the 3rd base umpire and said the ball was fair and the run counted so the initial ruling at that point was technically fair ball, run scored, game over. That's really the only fishy part. Then they went to instant replay to check and see if the ball was fair or foul (replay can't use the 3rd base umpire or any other umps ruling as proof of anything). The umpires determined that there was nothing in the path of the ball that could prove that it's a foul ball, so the call stood.
The review didn't overturn anything, the home plate ump did. The review was just to give the umpire a chance to double check if the ball was fair or not.
It should have been a foul ball based on the fact that the 3rd base umpire ruled such and I've heard rules state that any ump who calls a foul ball makes the ball foul and the play dead, but that would have been a blown call because it was a fair ball.

@@clipcoug1139 The only trouble with that is that in a 4 man umpire crew, "the call on the field", as they referred to it; belongs to the 3rd base umpire. Since the ball traveled beyond the front plane of third base, THE call of fair or foul is the responsibility of the 3rd base ump in position "D". With a 4 man crew the home plate umpire is only responsible for fair or foul up to, but not including the front plane of third base. If the ball had stopped moving or been touched by a player before reaching third base, then the home plate umpire's call would have been the call on the field. It would have been the home plate ump's call if they were playing with a 2 man crew. Since this ball made it out into left field, it became 3b's call. (Umpire manual section 9.7 or 9.6.4) And I think that maybe the coach worded his challenge wrong; I think if he challenged that the 3rd base umpire had called the ball dead, he would have won that challenge. But, since he only challenged whether or not the ball was fair, and there was no evidence to dispute what was somehow determined to have been "the call on the field", I believe he lost that specific challenge.

​@@richerwin6397: Yes, I figured it was the 3rd base ump's call after the ball crossed the bag and made it to left field and the home plate ump has everything before that given how many were on the umpire team for the game
I didn't think you can challenge whether or not an umpire called a ball dead or not, not even in Little League where I hear you can challenge basically anything.

I think when he saw the plate ump point fair, he may have thought he screwed up and made a call that wasnt his.............when in fact it was his call to make. Williamsport shouldve known whos call it should be and lived with that . Foul Ball

@@mptr1783 it doesn’t matter , that’s NOT the home plate umpires call. it was the third base umpires call.

@@aaronaguilar9172 yes, I know that. I said that the 3B ump may have thought it wasnt his call to make and dropped his arms when he saw the plate ump rule fair. Got it?

Their manager should have refused the decision, filed a formal protest, and gotten lawyers involved. Show your kids how not to get robbed and go quietly.

At least one of the opponent's coaches was an opportunist who saw an opening and said to himself, 'Play it out as if the ball ruled foul is fair, then we'll push it with the home plate ump. Even if we can only steal the run one time of a hundred, let's do it.' Repugnant stuff.

They aren’t

Typically, the Williamsport regional LLWS umpires are High School umpires. So, they are certified. They are volunteering here, but they aren't just guys off the street

@@nickkeene6827 feel robbed? Bro it’s the LLWS. They don’t make money or fame from it, it’s a kids game and umpiring mistakes have been made from the day it started in 1876. Like the comment above me, these are legit umpires for schools in the nation MLB isn’t going to send their finest to the fucking LLWS.

I think the real issue us that youth sports shouldn't be televised on espn

@@nickkeene6827 Little League will never use paid umpires for this level because they would go against the mission of the organization. That said, this play was not the only play in this game and to say the umpires cost anyone the game is just not correct. That ball is ruled fair. We don't have a view down the line. The Base Umpire is not primary on this call, it is the Plate Umpire's call on whether a bounding ball goes directly over the bag. So, the mistake is not ruling it fair. The mistake was the incorrect signal by the 3rd base umpire.

Bingo. Simple fairness is rarely complicated. Maybe you don't even add a strike, just throw it out. They're kids. Let them play.

Wooden bats would be FARRRRRRRRR TOO HEAVY for kids. Hell, the aluminum bats of my era were still too heavy for me and I was a big kid who matured early. They use composite (plastic) bats nowadays. What you're complaining about is a 6+ foot young kid who hit a homerun on a way too short field for him. The field and technology are made for the average kid, not the people who matured in 4th grade.

It would price *a holy hell of a lot* of a kids out of playing the game at all.

Since BBCOR there is no difference of the speed the ball comes off the bat, metal or wood. That was the point of instituting those regulations.

Isn't the reason for metal bats due to the cost of wooden? They break. If aluminum bats are too fast/powerful, then better to increase the size of the field.

@@michaelsullivan6576 wait a minute. If they’re all the same why the hell are people spending $200 on little league bats?

It's impossible to play any sport for an extended period of time without learning that lesson sooner of later.

@@nohigherbeing Yeah, and to a certain extent in Baseball it's deliberate. Plenty of Baseball fans are obsessed with continuity and keeping the game the same, so for them a certain amount of bad calls are a part of the experience.

yes, balls spin and curve. I think it might have been fair.

It could have been fair, but it doesn't matter. According to the rules, if an ump calls the play a foul at any point, including raising his arms like that, it's a dead play.

I'm pretty sure they get paid as well.

They almost never umpire in a 4-man crew; and this is one of the situations where 4-man changes whose call it is.