The low temperature melting solder in these connectors can re-melt in a hot engine compartment, or under high amperage. The heat shrink by itself is not mechanically strong enough to support the wire. A proper crimped and/or soldered connection will have mechanical strength and conductivity.
I agree. If life were perfect, I would like to 1: crimp, 2:solder, 3:heat shrink waterproof. Life is never ideal and I end up solder/shrink most of the time.
Granted,this may be LOW MELT Solder. I've never used this Product yet. I've done it OLD SCHOOL. Regardless,it would have to sit right on top of the Manifold for that to Possibly happen,which should NEVER be allowed in the 1rst place ! That is BAD wire Management Practices ! 2nd,if you happen to display HIGH Current through that connection, enough to MELT that Solder,you are doing something wrong in the 1rst place. A Fuse should Trip, LONG before that condition even comes into play,or you didn't pick your circuit/wire size/Fusing correctly. Low Melt Solder melts from 302-338° F,Tin/bismuth, tin/indium, or tin/bismuth/silver are the most common “low melting point” solders (150-170° C). Now what composition this Butt Connector uses,I couldn't say. Radiator Water can exceed over 212° with the help of Antifreeze Coolant in the right conditions. This is a FAR Cry from 302°F, granted Exhaust Temps are Much higher,but they are shielded so this kind of Monkey Business doesn't happen. Now as far as the Heat Shrink is concerned,it should NEVER be a Factor in the mechanical bond equation, as far as depending upon "IT" to be a Factor of that. That is NOT its JOB ! If you are depending on that to be part of your Holding Power,you have a Problem ! That means bad/WEAK joint ! SIMPLE ! My joints will hold a BULL DOG ! The wire will break some where else before that joint will EVER Fail ! I agree,a crimped/soldered connection is better than just crimping. I do that on Large END Terminals,but not just for mechanical strength and conductivity,i do it for corrosion protection also. So all in a day, it's up to how far are you willing to go to make a great connection. Would i use those Low Melt around a High Temp area? Doubtful. Not in DIRECT Proximity of the exhaust line. I would take Temp Gun measurements in that spot before i did,IF its around the Exhaust. Anywhere else would be fine. But you have to think,if you can put your hand there,it will survive. 302° F is pretty HOT ! AND,you can always put up a shield between it and the source.
I have never had that problem with the solder remelting. Low temp solder normally has a melting temp range of 150-170° C, nothing in an engine compartment is going to get that hot.
Hey man, thanks for making this video and for the time and detail you provided. This really helped me to make a confident decision and answered a major question i had about this exact topic. I had no real evidence or solid reason to think either was better than the other and most info out there is just an opinion that lacks the real world testing and objective evidence to supoort the final answer. Thanks so much for this!
Excellent video and explaination - nice details and interesting results. Thank you for producing this as I've often wondered which splice works best when using them on my boat or aircraft.
I do a lot of trailer wiring, and am a big fan of the marine grade heat shrink connectors as long as they're name brand. Wirefy and Haisstronica are my favorite brands so far. I feel they're more durable and easier to use in tight spots than the solder seal ones. Type of crimpers is also important.
I need to do some automotive electrical wire repair for a Jeep. Would you recommend these marine grade heat shrink connectors? It’s specifically in the engine compartment.
When I worked at GE in the harness department, we used solder sleeve connections exclusively. The went on military aircraft and would experience a lot of vibration and worked fine.
what i have noticed using these, is that even if the solder doesn't melt too god. The water resistant and the insulator works good enough. So, you need to make a proper splice and then apply it. It's better to have a weak solder core than over do the heating and ended up with a bad heat shrink :/
I'm a newbie. This was well-designed and easy for a rookie to follow. My application is marine with some occasional tight spots. Thinking I'd rather use a butt crimp and then heat shrink. Spaces on a boat can be tight. Hard to tell from this vid, but it appears that there may be less open flame or heat gun time involved in the butt crimps because the purpose is just to shrink the cover, the connection is already made mechanically. It's all personal preference I suppose, but I like the idea of limiting the time spent introducing heat into a smaller area on a boat. Great vid tho, you are a very good instructor.
It would be interesting to see what happens when more amps are introduced in 5 to 10 amp increments and which connector fails first as the connection/wire heats up
I must admit to a slight chuckle at the sight of the calculator fastened to the board. Excellent visual presentation. Perhaps for the more _"OCD"_ viewers, one could crimp on a butt splice (after sliding a piece of _adhesive lined_ heat shrink tubing (HST) on the wire first), flow some solder into the splice, then slide the HST over the splice and shrink it down.
@@rosslukeman I'm a retired EE, and really liked this outcome . Proof of Concept! But what is also the Lack of Rule here in the end too,1rst of course a GREAT connection,,but 2nd is the Time & Element factor ! With that simple Butt connector,there is still exposed connections inside that are somewhat imperfect to the atmosphere. These CAN and HAVE corroded over TIME, even under a simi-sealed condition. The Length of Time this takes is highly variable,but it's there. WATER can,and will, ingress into that Butt connector and then MOTHER NATURE will take its course. It's not a matter of IF,it's WHEN ! I have done MANY restores,and I'm sure you have to, of them NASTY CRIMP CLAMPS ! They should be OUTLAWED ! And you know what I'm talking about,them stupid @$$ Clam quick connectors that corrode as soon as you install them. The BOTTOM of the Barrel ! I NEVER use them ! PURE GARBAGE ! 💩🤬 But My belief in using Soldered Connections on ALL my incursions Alleaves the chance of ANY and ALL WATER into the connection possible. But I think Water Ingress is somewhat implied here to begin with,using a shrink type solder/shrink connector. Killing 2 birds with 1 Stone ! The Guy who thought that Solder/Shrink connector up was Brilliant ! DAM ! That saves a TON of WORK & TIME ! I do it OLD SCHOOL ! 🎓 But by Soldering the connection, that will help eliminate the chance of a BAD connection in the future. And you JUST proved, a LOWER resistance factor in your work scheme. It's all how long are wanting it to last before a failure may crop up ! Just because its NEW, doesn't mean it will WORK ! I also use to be a Q.C. Technician at a VERY WELL known company ! 1 out of 10 is an "Acceptable" Failure Rate ! YES ! That is even Military Standards ! That is unfathomable ! But it is in STONE ! I seen the book. Yes it's in print. I was responsible once for Killing a NEW product Before it had a chance to hit the Selves. Long story short,the 3rd round of MY inspection,and the gavel came down on my Ban Hammer, too many BAD units !! They were Jumping ALL OVER me ! They asked," Do you have the @$$ for these GUYS or WHAT?" I said,"NO,Just quit Pumping 💩!!". That was the "LAST" unit I seen of THAT !! CASE CLOSED !😎
Everyone misses one big point - solder will not corrode. I would tin the wires first in all instances but differing metals can give a mild diode effect. I'm surprised the solder joint wasn't worse than the crimp, when new. The crimp is considered to be mechanically superior but there should never be that much strain on a cable to test it. Salt water/damp atmospheres destroy copper, so solder rules on a boat... and RV.
Thank you for the real world demonstration. Consider splicing pieces of loose wire together and subjecting them to various conditions and loads over time, e.g., moisture, excessive current. Then periodically take resistance measurements with a Wheatstone Bridge. This could be a running experiment over a period of years.
Disagreed, they've already tested and more than often the solder will just be unreliable and not connect properly if you tin the wire You should entangle/mesh the wires together and then melt the solder
Well done video! If those wires still exist, it could be interesting to do a follow-up in a year or so. See what difference corrosion makes. Just an idea...
@@rosslukeman Also, it's be nice if you do a pull apart test to see how many pounds of tension it could take to pull those joints (crimp versus solder) apart.
@@SerenoOunce That shrink tube with the extra seal should take care of that, no? I have some in quite humid (Texas) conditions, visible for inspection, and can't see any corrosion after a few years, nor any higher resistance.
what do you mean more widely-applicable topics?! so many commenters are all thanking your for this comparison and suggesting you expand to include other connector types! I'm sure Project Farm has done a comparison video, but your video here was more focused in on specific electrical attributes...plus there is benefit to seeing a side by side comparison rather than a shootout of 50 different options.
Have used many Rechem splices and terminations (solder seal style) to repair wiring or to install modifications in fighter/maritime patrol aircraft. Both inside and on externally mounted avionics (pods)(high vibration areas). We never have any problems with them. I use them in my vehicles and for trailer wiring. Aircraft also contain crimp style splices BTW (plugs, bulkhead passthroughs, high current situations) I'd use either style, but prefer solder vice crimp. 35 years working on aircraft and aircraft wiring BTW.
Hey Ross. I tuned in as I was curious about what you had to say. I’ve seen so many people on here who can’t solder, try to demonstrate how to solder. Disaster every time. Proper crimps, technique and solder sleeves are the answer. Unfortunately most use the crappy dime store crimps as they are afraid to solder. Anyway, I enjoyed your demonstration as it was well layered out and factual. Thanks.
Hi, I worked 28 years for Raychem Corporation in Menlo Park, California , I worked with radiation crosslinking technology , and Raychem was purchased by TYCO ELECTRONICS after the founder Paul Cook retired.
Any connection where vibration is present is a connection that i will never solder. A crimp and heat shrink tubing does a perfect job. Never had one fail.
The best way I have found to "butt" connect two wires is to use an oversize sleeve connector so you can run the exposed wires completely through the connector from each end and turn each end back to make a ball at each end of the connector. Pull the wires back into the connector until the ball is covered by the insulation, and secure the wires by using standard wire crimper. To make it waterproof or simply more secure against contamination, first slide a length of electrical shrink tubing over one of the wires that will be pushed back over the completed connection, including the sleeve connector.
we did heat test on crimp connections with thermal cameras once , over time if a wire is pulling a heavy load heat will cause a crimp connection to fail
Solder seal is mostly useless on old wiring. Probably OK on new wire but difficult to determine if the solder flow is good or not. I find crimp with hot glue sealant is a better choice especially when working in tight difficult to access places for repairs. The correct crimper style is mandatory. Some people use the crimper with the point which punctures the insulation. The glue also helps mechanical strength. One thing to remember is manufacturers only solder in specific areas it at all. Crimping is their go to process. This doesn't mean it is the best but when I see crimped connections that are 50 years old and still sound that has to say something.
My curiosity is i have used butt connectors with a butt connector hand tool and has always worked great for car audio, how do these guy at audio shop melt those solder connectors inside the dash without melting other things..
The solder seal connectors are better for us because the high gauge wires tend to break more easily from flexing whereas the solder seal connectors remain pliable.
Yes, that's an interesting controversy between crimp and solder connectors. In circumstances of severe flexing and vibration, many prefer crimp connectors as a superior connection because traditional soldered connections are hard brittle solder that can tend to crack and loose contact. The softer, low temp solder of the solder seal connectors may provide higher flexibility to maintain the connection. The vast majority of solder seal connectors are being used in automotive application where flexing and vibration are quite high. I have a variety pack of solder seal connectors and find they are a good "problem solver" solution in hard to reach places, where applying solder with an iron might be quite difficult.
@@chrisgraham2904 we have been using them since about 2013 on industrial equipment in the mining and industrial space. Our latest venture is camera safety AI detection for safety around Fork trucks and other equipment in manufacturing facilities. We have been using the solder steel connectors to connect our system to the OEM parts. We originally had some failures in the field with the butt spices in our harnesses but since we switched to the solder seal connectors, we’ve had zero failures from our wiring harnesses over thousands of systems 10s of thousands of connections. I think the soft nature of the solder in the seal connectors does prevent fatigue due to movement and vibration better than the standard splices.
@@chrisgraham2904 Oops, "...tend to crack and loose contact..." loose means something night tight. You mean lose, notice, lose, loss, lost, losing, all have one letter o.
I gave up on butt connectors years ago, the centers are too short to make reliable mechanical connections. I now wrap the wire ends together solder and heat shrink.
Replaced hundreds of crimp butt connectors. Mostly put on with a leatherman, random pliers, vice grips, those crappy scissors type tools etc. Installed with the proper crimper, the high quality terminals are reliable and permanent. Cheap terminals or even the good ones, squashed on with the wrong tools are temporary at best. Dirty wire soldered by any method isn't any better. Look at factory crimps, the tool might cost a bit, but the crimps are gas-tight and don't fall apart.
@@rwein2951 I worked in a qualification lab where we used a Instron machine to do exactly that. On a straight pull, solder cups did slightly better. But crimps were preferred because soldering caused a stress point on stranded wire where the solder wicking ended. I don't remember which mil-spec it was but there are many on connections.
I feel like the crimp connectors stress the wire a lot more than the solder seal or just solder and heat shrink. Zero chance of breaking the wire with the solder seal.
I'm not sure about that, why would a crimp connector stress the wire? Applying heat to annealed copper wire will weaken it. You will find that most people involved in performance auto electrics will never use solder as they can fail over time from vibration.
regular crimp connectors come in VASTLY varying qualities, ask me how I know. the good ones are really great, given you use the right tools for them. The right tool is a tool that forces the crimp to the end. and for the heatshrink butt connectors it is NOT the same tool as for the regular insulated crimp connectors, that will damage the heatshrink. I prefer them over the weird self soldering things
You are correct on both the quality of these connectors and the type crimpers used. As much as I love the Klein crimper he uses, they are really for non insulated connectors, which I actually prefer because they are made of tinned copper and a bit heavier that the insulated types. Some insulated sleeves actually use a two piece sleeve, The problem with using the type crimpers he does is you can damage the heat shrink with them and potentially allow moisture in. The solder seal has the hot melt glue which seals very well. but I avoid using an torch on these because that too, can damage the heat shrink. When using these I only use a temperature regulated heat gun. He got the solder to flow but the wire itself may not have been hot enough for it to wick correctly. You want the whole assembly to heat slowly and evenly. And depending on the wire size they may be lacking a bit in flux. When I use these, I add a small dab of flux to one wire before inserting them. That assure that the solder wicks into the wire fully. Th solder seal connectors are quite good, but a little tricky to get the best out of them, If installed right, these will work flawlessly submerged in water. Hand soldered or non insulated sleeves, both under marine grade heat shrink tubing is the absolute best. Hus test methodology was much better than a lot of tests I've seen. Only way to do it better would be with a really high quality meter and attached to a bare spot as close to the connector as possible. But essentially his test indicated that either connector was fundamentally the same. You would need to draw enormous currents larger than the wire ampacity to see any significant hating. Don't ever be tempted to use a WAGO connector for automotive wiring. The internal resistance of these is considerably higher and they don't keep moisture out. You want a good waterproof connection on automotive wire. If any moisture gets in or even worse, some battery acid fumes, connections can and do corrode and that can play hell with low voltage sensor wiring,
looks like you crimped an insulated connector with a non-insulated crimper which is a better crimp but you also just lost the weatherproof marring and cutting the heat shrink
With anything in a truck, vibrations over time are key. Anything that's not secure will break over time. It's great to see the resistance values are similar, but for durability we do need to be soldering our connections.
There isn't enough solder in connector to penetrate complete connection, cut it in half and you will see only the outer few strands have slight coating of solder. They've been tested before on other YT channels and failed. I have worked for over 40 years on AC and DC controls building and repairing, those connectors not allowed on any of our service vehicles.
Butt Crimp joins Suck, Never have I been happy with them. They easily pull apart and allow water ingress and corrosion. Solder joins dont corrode and the sealed casing improves that even more.
Why don't you simply make the splice in the wires and then use a quality ohm meter to check through the splice? I don't see the value of the battery charger and all the calculations!
Well done. You did a proper analysis, I liked your method. However, a buttsplice will almost always be better than a solder joint ONLY if it is done with the proper tool. Your crimper was not a top quality, ratcheting crimper with the head that perfectly matched the crimp. Only if high quality tools and crimps are used, and proper crimp tools are expensive, will a crimp be better than a solder joint. Otherwise it is mpretty much a wash as to which is better. Also, we are talking mili ohms, a very very small difference. But, none the less, you did an excellent job if demonstrating a proper scientific method way to test something. I'm impressed with your work. Good job.
* These minuscule and meaningless differences in resistance are merely artifacts of wire length, variations in materials, EMS interference, factors unknown, plus a "cheap" multimeter and leads. "Solder Seal" connectors are monstrously awkward, impossible to evaluate success, usually fail / don't work !!! In a word, "THEY'RE HORRIBLE" !!! We work on all types of equipment, machinery, electronics, scientific equipment, but especially boats! Curiosity inspired our evaluation of these gimmicky connectors. We wanted the idea to work, but it didn't! RULES: [ 1 ] For 18--10 ga stranded wire non-marine applications, use marine grade heat-shrink connectors, crimped with Thomas & Betts WT111M, not cheap Chinese DIY crimpers. If properly crimped and head-shrink sealed, seldom exposed to weather, never near salt or saltwater, the result will be acceptable. [ 2 ] For marine, aviation, and weather-exposed applications, use "tinned" marine wire, solder and heat shrink connectors and wire splices, OR YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY REGRET IT !!!
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The low temperature melting solder in these connectors can re-melt in a hot engine compartment, or under high amperage. The heat shrink by itself is not mechanically strong enough to support the wire. A proper crimped and/or soldered connection will have mechanical strength and conductivity.
I agree. If life were perfect, I would like to 1: crimp, 2:solder, 3:heat shrink waterproof. Life is never ideal and I end up solder/shrink most of the time.
Granted,this may be LOW MELT Solder. I've never used this Product yet. I've done it OLD SCHOOL. Regardless,it would have to sit right on top of the Manifold for that to Possibly happen,which should NEVER be allowed in the 1rst place ! That is BAD wire Management Practices ! 2nd,if you happen to display HIGH Current through that connection, enough to MELT that Solder,you are doing something wrong in the 1rst place. A Fuse should Trip, LONG before that condition even comes into play,or you didn't pick your circuit/wire size/Fusing correctly.
Low Melt Solder melts from 302-338° F,Tin/bismuth, tin/indium, or tin/bismuth/silver are the most common “low melting point” solders (150-170° C).
Now what composition this Butt Connector uses,I couldn't say. Radiator Water can exceed over 212° with the help of Antifreeze Coolant in the right conditions. This is a FAR Cry from 302°F, granted Exhaust Temps are Much higher,but they are shielded so this kind of Monkey Business doesn't happen.
Now as far as the Heat Shrink is concerned,it should NEVER be a Factor in the mechanical bond equation, as far as depending upon "IT" to be a Factor of that. That is NOT its JOB !
If you are depending on that to be part of your Holding Power,you have a Problem ! That means bad/WEAK joint ! SIMPLE ! My joints will hold a BULL DOG ! The wire will break some where else before that joint will EVER Fail ! I agree,a crimped/soldered connection is better than just crimping. I do that on Large END Terminals,but not just for mechanical strength and conductivity,i do it for corrosion protection also.
So all in a day, it's up to how far are you willing to go to make a great connection. Would i use those Low Melt around a High Temp area? Doubtful. Not in DIRECT Proximity of the exhaust line. I would take Temp Gun measurements in that spot before i did,IF its around the Exhaust. Anywhere else would be fine.
But you have to think,if you can put your hand there,it will survive. 302° F is pretty HOT ! AND,you can always put up a shield between it and the source.
I have never had that problem with the solder remelting. Low temp solder normally has a melting temp range of 150-170° C, nothing in an engine compartment is going to get that hot.
Good point, not to mention the entire experiment is meaningless since he resistance will change in the wire that received heat from the torch
the melting point of those solder is about 150C. That is likely not going to be in ur engine compartment....
Good job on the video. Very methodical and straightforward. Bravo.
Hey there, thanks for tuning in, and great to hear you enjoyed the video! I appreciate the feedback-
Hey man, thanks for making this video and for the time and detail you provided. This really helped me to make a confident decision and answered a major question i had about this exact topic. I had no real evidence or solid reason to think either was better than the other and most info out there is just an opinion that lacks the real world testing and objective evidence to supoort the final answer. Thanks so much for this!
Excellent video and explaination - nice details and interesting results. Thank you for producing this as I've often wondered which splice works best when using them on my boat or aircraft.
Thanks for the kind words and for tuning in. I'm glad that you found it helpful!
I do a lot of trailer wiring, and am a big fan of the marine grade heat shrink connectors as long as they're name brand. Wirefy and Haisstronica are my favorite brands so far. I feel they're more durable and easier to use in tight spots than the solder seal ones. Type of crimpers is also important.
I need to do some automotive electrical wire repair for a Jeep. Would you recommend these marine grade heat shrink connectors? It’s specifically in the engine compartment.
@@WiSeR187look into Ancor brand connectors.. it’s what i use on these million dollar plus boats along with everyone else i know in the field.
So what crimpers do you recommend and what is your opinion on open barrel connectors.....I'm hooking up am MSD 6A in my older ford pickup....
I twist the wires together when I use the solder connectors. I usually just use the regular heat shrink butt splices though.
Really great video! Thanks for giving us more practical information
Thank you Duane, glad to hear you got something out of it!
When I worked at GE in the harness department, we used solder sleeve connections exclusively.
The went on military aircraft and would experience a lot of vibration and worked fine.
what i have noticed using these, is that even if the solder doesn't melt too god. The water resistant and the insulator works good enough. So, you need to make a proper splice and then apply it. It's better to have a weak solder core than over do the heating and ended up with a bad heat shrink :/
Interesting and educational content as usually. Thank you.
I'm glad you found it useful, thanks for tuning in!
Thanks for doing this comparison. I sometimes wondered about any benefit or weakness the solder seal might have provided, now I know.
Glad that helped, thanks for tuning in!
I'm a newbie. This was well-designed and easy for a rookie to follow. My application is marine with some occasional tight spots. Thinking I'd rather use a butt crimp and then heat shrink. Spaces on a boat can be tight. Hard to tell from this vid, but it appears that there may be less open flame or heat gun time involved in the butt crimps because the purpose is just to shrink the cover, the connection is already made mechanically. It's all personal preference I suppose, but I like the idea of limiting the time spent introducing heat into a smaller area on a boat. Great vid tho, you are a very good instructor.
It would be interesting to see what happens when more amps are introduced in 5 to 10 amp increments and which connector fails first as the connection/wire heats up
I must admit to a slight chuckle at the sight of the calculator fastened to the board. Excellent visual presentation.
Perhaps for the more _"OCD"_ viewers, one could crimp on a butt splice (after sliding a piece of _adhesive lined_ heat shrink tubing (HST) on the wire first), flow some solder into the splice, then slide the HST over the splice and shrink it down.
Really helpful. I’ve wondered about this for a while. Thanks!
I'm glad that was helpful! Thanks for tuning in!
Seems like either are a reasonable choice. Thanks for the video.
That was kind of how I felt at the end of it, thanks for tuning in!
@@rosslukeman I'm a retired EE, and really liked this outcome . Proof of Concept! But what is also the Lack of Rule here in the end too,1rst of course a GREAT connection,,but 2nd is the Time & Element factor ! With that simple Butt connector,there is still exposed connections inside that are somewhat imperfect to the atmosphere. These CAN and HAVE corroded over TIME, even under a simi-sealed condition. The Length of Time this takes is highly variable,but it's there. WATER can,and will, ingress into that Butt connector and then MOTHER NATURE will take its course. It's not a matter of IF,it's WHEN !
I have done MANY restores,and I'm sure you have to, of them NASTY CRIMP CLAMPS ! They should be OUTLAWED ! And you know what I'm talking about,them stupid @$$ Clam quick connectors that corrode as soon as you install them. The BOTTOM of the Barrel ! I NEVER use them ! PURE GARBAGE ! 💩🤬
But My belief in using Soldered Connections on ALL my incursions Alleaves the chance of ANY and ALL WATER into the connection possible.
But I think Water Ingress is somewhat implied here to begin with,using a shrink type solder/shrink connector. Killing 2 birds with 1 Stone !
The Guy who thought that Solder/Shrink connector up was Brilliant ! DAM ! That saves a TON of WORK & TIME ! I do it OLD SCHOOL ! 🎓
But by Soldering the connection, that will help eliminate the chance of a BAD connection in the future. And you JUST proved, a LOWER resistance factor in your work scheme.
It's all how long are wanting it to last before a failure may crop up ! Just because its NEW, doesn't mean it will WORK !
I also use to be a Q.C. Technician at a VERY WELL known company ! 1 out of 10 is an "Acceptable" Failure Rate ! YES ! That is even Military Standards !
That is unfathomable ! But it is in STONE ! I seen the book. Yes it's in print. I was responsible once for Killing a NEW product Before it had a chance to hit the Selves.
Long story short,the 3rd round of MY inspection,and the gavel came down on my Ban Hammer, too many BAD units !! They were Jumping ALL OVER me !
They asked," Do you have the @$$ for these GUYS or WHAT?" I said,"NO,Just quit Pumping 💩!!". That was the "LAST" unit I seen of THAT !! CASE CLOSED !😎
Another great video. I agree 5454, with the wago connection test.
Thanks for tuning in and seconding the Wago suggestion. Looks like there's some interest in those.
I appreciate the honest review. Thanks 🙏
Thank you, glad you got something out of it!
Everyone misses one big point - solder will not corrode. I would tin the wires first in all instances but differing metals can give a mild diode effect. I'm surprised the solder joint wasn't worse than the crimp, when new. The crimp is considered to be mechanically superior but there should never be that much strain on a cable to test it. Salt water/damp atmospheres destroy copper, so solder rules on a boat... and RV.
I already like this video. Awesome! I like to see with multi connectors
Thank you for the real world demonstration. Consider splicing pieces of loose wire together and subjecting them to various conditions and loads over time, e.g., moisture, excessive current. Then periodically take resistance measurements with a Wheatstone Bridge. This could be a running experiment over a period of years.
solder connection shrinking on the wire and some brands is lined with hot glue that makes more sense in marine and outdoor connection
Solder connectors don't have enough solder to get a reliable joint. They work better when you tin the wire first.
Sounds good, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
If you pre tin the wired you cant mesh them together properly... just use them with flux
Disagreed, they've already tested and more than often the solder will just be unreliable and not connect properly if you tin the wire
You should entangle/mesh the wires together and then melt the solder
Super well done, thank you!!!
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words! Thanks for tuning in!
both are completely reliant on competent user installation.
Well done video!
If those wires still exist, it could be interesting to do a follow-up in a year or so. See what difference corrosion makes. Just an idea...
Great to hear you enjoyed this experiment! Thanks for tuning in and for the idea video idea!
@@rosslukeman Also, it's be nice if you do a pull apart test to see how many pounds of tension it could take to pull those joints (crimp versus solder) apart.
Exactly. That is where the solder seal then truly outperforms.
Low melt solder is very brittle and these a are known to corrode the conductors over time.
@@SerenoOunce That shrink tube with the extra seal should take care of that, no? I have some in quite humid (Texas) conditions, visible for inspection, and can't see any corrosion after a few years, nor any higher resistance.
great test - wondering if you need to do this with wago, and wire nuts and an old school solder...
Hi Doug, thanks for the suggestion. With all due respect, I think I will likely move onto more widely-applicable topics at this point.
what do you mean more widely-applicable topics?! so many commenters are all thanking your for this comparison and suggesting you expand to include other connector types!
I'm sure Project Farm has done a comparison video, but your video here was more focused in on specific electrical attributes...plus there is benefit to seeing a side by side comparison rather than a shootout of 50 different options.
Have used many Rechem splices and terminations (solder seal style) to repair wiring or to install modifications in fighter/maritime patrol aircraft. Both inside and on externally mounted avionics (pods)(high vibration areas). We never have any problems with them. I use them in my vehicles and for trailer wiring. Aircraft also contain crimp style splices BTW (plugs, bulkhead passthroughs, high current situations) I'd use either style, but prefer solder vice crimp. 35 years working on aircraft and aircraft wiring BTW.
Very cool, thanks for tuning in and for sharing your thoughts on this!
Hey Ross. I tuned in as I was curious about what you had to say. I’ve seen so many people on here who can’t solder, try to demonstrate how to solder. Disaster every time. Proper crimps, technique and solder sleeves are the answer. Unfortunately most use the crappy dime store crimps as they are afraid to solder. Anyway, I enjoyed your demonstration as it was well layered out and factual. Thanks.
Hi, I worked 28 years for Raychem Corporation in Menlo Park, California , I worked with radiation crosslinking technology , and Raychem was purchased by TYCO ELECTRONICS after the founder Paul Cook retired.
Very good information. Thank you.
Thanks! I appreciate you tuning in-
Now I want to see if quick splice connectors are as bad as people think.
Any connection where vibration is present is a connection that i will never solder. A crimp and heat shrink tubing does a perfect job. Never had one fail.
My wirefly solder seal was tight after installing
6 months later it came loose Went back to butt connectors
That is the Big Question mark, on the use of this type of connector, in my eye. You can Never be 100% SURE that you have a GREAT Connection !
The best way I have found to "butt" connect two wires is to use an oversize sleeve connector so you can run the exposed wires completely through the connector from each end and turn each end back to make a ball at each end of the connector. Pull the wires back into the connector until the ball is covered by the insulation, and secure the wires by using standard wire crimper. To make it waterproof or simply more secure against contamination, first slide a length of electrical shrink tubing over one of the wires that will be pushed back over the completed connection, including the sleeve connector.
we did heat test on crimp connections with thermal cameras once , over time if a wire is pulling a heavy load heat will cause a crimp connection to fail
Love that. Thanks for sharing your experience with these connectors!
Solder seal is mostly useless on old wiring. Probably OK on new wire but difficult to determine if the solder flow is good or not. I find crimp with hot glue sealant is a better choice especially when working in tight difficult to access places for repairs. The correct crimper style is mandatory. Some people use the crimper with the point which punctures the insulation. The glue also helps mechanical strength. One thing to remember is manufacturers only solder in specific areas it at all. Crimping is their go to process. This doesn't mean it is the best but when I see crimped connections that are 50 years old and still sound that has to say something.
Butt Splice was the name of my high-school band.
Can we see this with just soldering only?
My curiosity is i have used butt connectors with a butt connector hand tool and has always worked great for car audio, how do these guy at audio shop melt those solder connectors inside the dash without melting other things..
The solder seal connectors are better for us because the high gauge wires tend to break more easily from flexing whereas the solder seal connectors remain pliable.
Yes, that's an interesting controversy between crimp and solder connectors. In circumstances of severe flexing and vibration, many prefer crimp connectors as a superior connection because traditional soldered connections are hard brittle solder that can tend to crack and loose contact. The softer, low temp solder of the solder seal connectors may provide higher flexibility to maintain the connection. The vast majority of solder seal connectors are being used in automotive application where flexing and vibration are quite high. I have a variety pack of solder seal connectors and find they are a good "problem solver" solution in hard to reach places, where applying solder with an iron might be quite difficult.
@@chrisgraham2904 we have been using them since about 2013 on industrial equipment in the mining and industrial space. Our latest venture is camera safety AI detection for safety around Fork trucks and other equipment in manufacturing facilities. We have been using the solder steel connectors to connect our system to the OEM parts. We originally had some failures in the field with the butt spices in our harnesses but since we switched to the solder seal connectors, we’ve had zero failures from our wiring harnesses over thousands of systems 10s of thousands of connections. I think the soft nature of the solder in the seal connectors does prevent fatigue due to movement and vibration better than the standard splices.
@@chrisgraham2904 Oops, "...tend to crack and loose contact..." loose means something night tight. You mean lose, notice, lose, loss, lost, losing, all have one letter o.
@@ricdonato4328Oops!...."something night tight"? You mean; "not tight"? The word "not" also contains only one "o".
"Nighty-night and sleep tight".
Why not mho's condectivity useing whetstone bridge.
Mechanically pull joint apart
Measure tensile force.
The solder seal ones will fail in hot conditions. Whereas the crimp will still have a mechanical hold.
I've had two of them right on top of my engine for 4 years, haven't failed yet
ty 🙂
I'm glad that was helpful, thanks for tuning in!
I gave up on butt connectors years ago, the centers are too short to make reliable mechanical connections. I now wrap the wire ends together solder and heat shrink.
You need better butt connectors, not the auto parts store junk
useful info.
Glad that was helpful, thanks for watching!
Interested in seeing how it compares to an actual soldered link without any type of connector
Hey there, thanks for tuning in and for the suggestion!
Solder tin does not melt completely
Nice.
Replaced hundreds of crimp butt connectors. Mostly put on with a leatherman, random pliers, vice grips, those crappy scissors type tools etc. Installed with the proper crimper, the high quality terminals are reliable and permanent. Cheap terminals or even the good ones, squashed on with the wrong tools are temporary at best. Dirty wire soldered by any method isn't any better. Look at factory crimps, the tool might cost a bit, but the crimps are gas-tight and don't fall apart.
Until the wire gets pulled on...
@@rwein2951 I worked in a qualification lab where we used a Instron machine to do exactly that.
On a straight pull, solder cups did slightly better. But crimps were preferred because soldering caused a stress point on stranded wire where the solder wicking ended. I don't remember which mil-spec it was but there are many on connections.
I'd love to see wago's Added to the mix
Thanks for the suggestion, and for tuning in!
I feel like the crimp connectors stress the wire a lot more than the solder seal or just solder and heat shrink. Zero chance of breaking the wire with the solder seal.
I'm not sure about that, why would a crimp connector stress the wire? Applying heat to annealed copper wire will weaken it. You will find that most people involved in performance auto electrics will never use solder as they can fail over time from vibration.
you are cutting into the wire with a crimp connector, even just a little.@@MarkoVukovic0
mechanical crimps all day. It’s all we use on boats and cars.
Spelt solder pronounced sodder.
It would be interesting to know the background to that.
I’ll take solder all day
regular crimp connectors come in VASTLY varying qualities, ask me how I know. the good ones are really great, given you use the right tools for them. The right tool is a tool that forces the crimp to the end. and for the heatshrink butt connectors it is NOT the same tool as for the regular insulated crimp connectors, that will damage the heatshrink. I prefer them over the weird self soldering things
You are correct on both the quality of these connectors and the type crimpers used. As much as I love the Klein crimper he uses, they are really for non insulated connectors, which I actually prefer because they are made of tinned copper and a bit heavier that the insulated types. Some insulated sleeves actually use a two piece sleeve,
The problem with using the type crimpers he does is you can damage the heat shrink with them and potentially allow moisture in. The solder seal has the hot melt glue which seals very well. but I avoid using an torch on these because that too, can damage the heat shrink. When using these I only use a temperature regulated heat gun. He got the solder to flow but the wire itself may not have been hot enough for it to wick correctly. You want the whole assembly to heat slowly and evenly. And depending on the wire size they may be lacking a bit in flux. When I use these, I add a small dab of flux to one wire before inserting them. That assure that the solder wicks into the wire fully.
Th solder seal connectors are quite good, but a little tricky to get the best out of them, If installed right, these will work flawlessly submerged in water.
Hand soldered or non insulated sleeves, both under marine grade heat shrink tubing is the absolute best.
Hus test methodology was much better than a lot of tests I've seen. Only way to do it better would be with a really high quality meter and attached to a bare spot as close to the connector as possible. But essentially his test indicated that either connector was fundamentally the same. You would need to draw enormous currents larger than the wire ampacity to see any significant hating.
Don't ever be tempted to use a WAGO connector for automotive wiring. The internal resistance of these is considerably higher and they don't keep moisture out. You want a good waterproof connection on automotive wire. If any moisture gets in or even worse, some battery acid fumes, connections can and do corrode and that can play hell with low voltage sensor wiring,
I've had a hard time believing anything with the name "butt splice" is going to be very good. lol
looks like you crimped an insulated connector with a non-insulated crimper which is a better crimp but you also just lost the weatherproof marring and cutting the heat shrink
Thanks for the feedback!
Solder seal has made the but splices redundant. 100%
Soak both in salty water for a month, then retest
Hmm, that would be quite the test. Thanks for tuning in-
With anything in a truck, vibrations over time are key. Anything that's not secure will break over time. It's great to see the resistance values are similar, but for durability we do need to be soldering our connections.
There isn't enough solder in connector to penetrate complete connection, cut it in half and you will see only the outer few strands have slight coating of solder. They've been tested before on other YT channels and failed. I have worked for over 40 years on AC and DC controls building and repairing, those connectors not allowed on any of our service vehicles.
Butt Crimp joins Suck, Never have I been happy with them. They easily pull apart and allow water ingress and corrosion. Solder joins dont corrode and the sealed casing improves that even more.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Why don't you simply make the splice in the wires and then use a quality ohm meter to check through the splice? I don't see the value of the battery charger and all the calculations!
Now try to pull them apart.... solder will win..
The solder connection is definitely not stronger. It is way weaker than the crimped one.
Well done. You did a proper analysis, I liked your method. However, a buttsplice will almost always be better than a solder joint ONLY if it is done with the proper tool. Your crimper was not a top quality, ratcheting crimper with the head that perfectly matched the crimp. Only if high quality tools and crimps are used, and proper crimp tools are expensive, will a crimp be better than a solder joint. Otherwise it is mpretty much a wash as to which is better. Also, we are talking mili ohms, a very very small difference.
But, none the less, you did an excellent job if demonstrating a proper scientific method way to test something. I'm impressed with your work. Good job.
* These minuscule and meaningless differences in resistance are merely artifacts of wire length, variations in materials, EMS interference, factors unknown, plus a "cheap" multimeter and leads. "Solder Seal" connectors are monstrously awkward, impossible to evaluate success, usually fail / don't work !!! In a word, "THEY'RE HORRIBLE" !!! We work on all types of equipment, machinery, electronics, scientific equipment, but especially boats! Curiosity inspired our evaluation of these gimmicky connectors. We wanted the idea to work, but it didn't! RULES: [ 1 ] For 18--10 ga stranded wire non-marine applications, use marine grade heat-shrink connectors, crimped with Thomas & Betts WT111M, not cheap Chinese DIY crimpers. If properly crimped and head-shrink sealed, seldom exposed to weather, never near salt or saltwater, the result will be acceptable. [ 2 ] For marine, aviation, and weather-exposed applications, use "tinned" marine wire, solder and heat shrink connectors and wire splices, OR YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY REGRET IT !!!
I've never seen voltage "Vascillate"!!!
Your voltage needs to make up its mind!
Yeah I may have to have a talk with it!