James Baldwin and Paul Weiss's HEATED Debate On Discrimination in America | The Dick Cavett Show

James Baldwin has lived a life of being lied to. And he had to confront white people who wanted to rewrite his truth. Of course I agree with James.

What a terrible question that discredits the entire usefulness of the dick cavett show. It’s not about who you agree with, it’s that two serious people with differing opinions can debate each other in a civil manner. They pretty much take turns being right. They each have valid points and they each have weak counter arguments to the others valid point.

@Nick West no one knows how to debate anymore, they just argue.

@@TheBornnaked While of course what you say about what a debate should be defined as is true, nothing Weiss said is right so it's much easier to look at this as the ignorant being enlightened through questions. This is closer to a Socratic seminar where the one asking questions is completely clueless about the subject at hand and has only seen the world through his own interpretation.

All of Paul Weiss's arguments sound exactly like Jordan Peterson today, this did not age well for him considering that pretty much nothing has changed or improved from his time, yet what he is saying would mean that things would have improved a lot more 40+ years later

I've been looking for a way to say that. Thank you so much. Exactly the way I think. Listen to learn not to wait to respond.

Weiss seems very insecure and needy.

Paul Weiss demonstrates that concept perfectly

@Torre Person Paul Weiss' "responses" was refuting what James Baldwin's experiences were and the systematic "isms" set in place...Which James Baldwin so eloquently summerized towards the end of this video.
Paul Weiss was responding to what James Baldwin was sharing and speaking of each time...Paul Weiss wasn't learning anything from what James Baldwin was saying...As far as I'm concerned, what Baldwin spoke of was hogwash to Weiss...
Having a difference of opinion is one thing...However, when one totally disregards, disputes, refutes what's been someone's life experiences ect one learns nothing...Ignorance comes into play...
Bottom line is, one can agree to disagree without having to refute what's being said...Having an open mind in wanting to learn, to know and overstand can get a person to this place...
With that being said, we (you and I) can agree to disagree...

@Torre Person The learn part comes First.

Talking points. Same as 45

they've been using that talking point for forever. its called exceptionalism.

@mastadon8215 Baldwin is an amazing communicator he's talking about the problem without being the angry victim that the media pushes today..

times change. grow up

And they wonder why we call them racist

I know your comment was a year ago, but absolutely beautifully said❤

​@@brielleanyez7113I'm sure you will agree the aforementioned comment could have been written decades ago but it is still a testament to Baldwin using his talents for the greater good for everyone on this planet we all share. Thank God for people like him.

Let us love ourselves and our people and learn to courageously speak our truth.

His ability to empathically listen to any argument was his most powerful skill in my opinion.

I agree, to hear James Baldwin speak is truly a magical experience. There is an intelligence and emotional sincerity in his voice that is truly unmatched.

He was born to poor working lass Jewish parents.

á la: "The Secret" visualize to materialize. namaste.

@Stephen Carter please explain

@Stephen Carter I think what Weiss and you seem to misunderstand is that Baldwin is a writer, yes but Baldwin is a BLACK writer so he has to worry about being BLACK first

​@Stephen Carter Conservative mental gymnastics = Olympic level mental gymnastics

Me too! Genius✅

Incredibly eloquent indeed.

well does, I mean literally, Mr.Baldwin s history in the United States of America begin with him being sold as chattel?

Agreed, and this was A very deep statement that paved the way for his agruement

Absolutely.

That statement was absolutely brilliant. It was a drop the mic moment and it shut Weiss up who had to reluctantly agree

And still not seen to this day!!

Educate them brother Baldwin. I wish you were still alive today.

He was really a detriment to so many people and their world views.

I totally caught that at the end. Silence was the answer. It means they had to really think about what he was saying, because what he was saying had no comeback.

Always

Wiess was extremely dismissive and thus showed his ignorance.

Right on.

Just like they do today...especially most reporters on Fox News

Yeah and when u realize the talking points of privelege by either not realizing or minimizing the issue its easy to see and spot in other systemic issues surrounding class, sex, gender, functionality and so on. Hopefuly if we see it when we are a part of the marginalized group, we can try to check ourselves and our stance when were not.

you’re so right, the body language is so telling

Baldwin had him squirming. As i said, Weiss did his best to break him to no avail.

Paul doesn't have a clue what's it is like to be a back person like many other white people. You are speaking to deaf ears. It's like telling Satan to be understanding and good. That's never going to happen. It's like spitting against the win when you try to ask them to see your problems they caused. Only God Almighty can fix this injustice and He will.

So so disrespectful.

Baldwin when in on the Dr!!!!!!

‘they’ is a very dangerous word in this context, i’d avoid that if i were you.

@@brayden3822 Every word isdangerous online lmfao who tf cares. just say what you want to say

Because the racist elites don't won't black people too understand or know the truth about themselves and get mad when you talk about their people aka white people

@@brayden3822ain’t no way you just said that🤣 i might be living under a rock if somebody gets offended by “they”😭

White people then@@brayden3822

yes you are right

It's a powerful statement because it's lasted this long and even to this day exploits what this society is, has been and is trying to be again. It's truth.

mind blowing and has a twilight zone feel

@@headhunters8061 “I don’t know what most white people feel. I can only conclude what they feel from the state of their institutions.. I don’t know if the board of education hates black people, but I know the textbooks they give my children to read and the schools we have to go to" James Baldwin

Baldwin shut Weiss up real good!!! That fire still burns!!!

Good to know he was racist. It was never a "white institution" it was a success based institution. To apply whiteness to something that has been emphatically harmful to white people is preposterous by its own very notion.

@@Darkyahweh Jim Crow, a result of brainwashing young white children after the Civil War by the Daughters of the Confederacy, was the biggest testament to how much “white institutions” despised their African American neighbors after slavery ended.

@@GeneralLocooo Incorrect... Jim Crow was a result of EQUAL BRAINWASHING of both young white AND black children... it was a neutral institution... and no malice was the result... you are making falsehoods out of liberal talking points of the 60's which was put into books by liberal institutions and arguable as by proof today by the laws being removed and segregation still happening, one could argue that the black community is inherently more racist than the white community as one community is more willing to accept the other as proven by stats. So although the people in charge might be white the institution is truly a black institution ran by white people who would pick a black doll over a white doll if you did the doll experiment to them which can be proven by the political movements as they now explicitly only target and hate white people, specifically white cis men.

@@Darkyahweh that’s a lot of conjecture with no empirical evidence.

@Noah_Beaty oh really? Please tell me, where did ALL crypto currencies for the past decade say "you can't buy me because of your skin color" ... yet TODAY they still make the SAME CLAIM... the TRUTH is that when one person fails they look for an excuse and if they are racist which he was, they blame the other race.

It’s an amazing show of racist ignorance from a truly brilliant man.

@@Erockarmy I don't know if Weiss is a racist or not. He didn't addressed what Baldwin wanted to convey, he was hiding the problem under the rug.
Weiss said he looked Baldwin as an author and everything else was "a condition, a problem, created by beagots" that Baldwin, as a intellectual Black man should dismiss all the atrocities done to the black community.
The point is, Weiss was out of his league, thus the Baldwin frustration. His final remark telling why he left the country and the distance/segregation between black and white was spot on.

It really cuts to the heart of the matter and really destroyed Weiss' arguments. The follow up of "This is the evidence, you want me to make an act of faith, risking my life, my woman, my sisters, my children, on some idealism which you assure me which exists in America, that I have never seen" Is one of the best arguments detailing the modern african american experience.

@@vic7939 At best he was a typical enabler, the kind who opposes change and justice because there isn't a problem. All systems of oppression need enablers and apologists in order to function. They are the ones who normalize oppression by downplaying it and claiming that the oppressed are over reacting..

He says conclude I believe

And this is true I also was
In France and treated
With dignity, nothing like living in the Americas…

No! What he’s saying is much worse.
He’s saying, “Most of y’all are stupid/lazy. But ur blaming us. Get over it 😒.” He’s thinking that everyone has same opportunities. So, “Stop ur yapping.”

Agreed. Although I believe Paul argument holds more truth today than it did in the time of this recording due to the decrease number of systemic racism institutions ,if any at all. Today a man of color can succeed in becoming a “man” (successful) without having to faced by barriers of racist institutions.

@@leekarfear9677 I agree that the barriers are tilted a little more than they were were during the debate they had then. But and I say without pause that we are very conscious they still don't lay flat for us.

@@CarolinaDoc and the danger from certain institutions may still pose a deadly threat ,,

Its the typical capitalist reply Paul is giving. "Look at you, making it out of the ghetto, it proves it can be done". Imagine if he was talking to a holocaust victim that managed to escape: "Look, you managed to escape from the concentration camp, which proves the rest didn't bother to get out, knowing you did it, so could they have done - if they wanted to".

lol gaslighting at its finest

Soooo true. This video should be linked to explain gaslighting. Of course those responsible for doing it wouldn’t notice.

It’s like the classical example of gaslighting. So true.

Yes Baldwin's face said it all 😂

@@mshill2406 burnt ass huh?

Baldwin is clearly the better and more excellent gentleman.

Paul Weiss could have had that dominance towards anyone (as many other academic types) you're Just assuming It was due to the fact that james baldwin was black

Gaslighters always try to tell you what you are seeing or experiencing is not what it is. It's still going on in today's society. White or black, it's still here.

Part of the seduction of the magical thinking that passes for civic pride in this country is that the mere theoretical high-mindedness of its ideals are somehow sufficient to erase the effects of centuries of human calumny that went before and that we are, merely because of that espousal, righteous and honorable already with no heavy lifting required.

Damn straight

AAAALLLL OF THIS!!!!

That ending got Paul Weiss silent. The truth hurts.

Your actions are not your morals when your hands are bound. Also, should someone be undereducated do to, say racism, that is not their moral failure.

Would it make you feel better if Thomas Sowell told him life isn't fair and to succeed you mist overcome?

@@anthonyoer4778 replacing the messenger doesn't change facts that white supremacy isn't just a life occurrence.

@@Wiggy321 how far removed from A victim does someone need to be to be innocent? Most US states began abolishing slavery after the revolutionary war. The only systemic racism were in democrat states.

@@Wiggy321 did you know 40% of BLM fundraising goes to the DNC? the same party of the KKK? the same party of Jim Crow laws?

@@anthonyoer4778 you mean Dixicrats. Any of them alive today or in government presently? History also tells us the modern republican party was once the democratic party.

ignorant man? what gave you that impression? he's stating what he (himself) feels
not what Baldwin's feels. Baldwin kinda contradicts himself somewhat because he's the absolute opposite of what he claims to be, a successful writer and not
a victim or loser

@@spactick preach.

With respect - and I’m certainly not agreeing with him here - Paul Weiss was not an ignorant man.

Paul Weiss is every bit the " liberal but racially conservative white" that's onstensibly making comments such as yours.
Much like the other "cheek of your ass", seems you haven't aged a bit.

@@spactick Weiss was ignorant on the topic of what Baldwin and his people were going through. The idea that Baldwin's people should just stop talking about race and their problems would go away is profoundly ignorant, and parroted by fools like Morgan Freeman today. Also ignorant is the idea that race wasn't an issue because Baldwin-himself an outlier-had achieved a limited degree of success in a society slanted against his ethnic group.

Exactly he doesn't want to be taught the truth he wants to do the it's not a racially motivated nation

@@TheT151 I believe that weis is white. White people do not "learn" about racism from non-white people. White people are the experts on racism. Learning it , teaching it, and practicing it. Non- white/black people should be studying white people to learn the ways that racist practice racism/white supremacy. I believe we are witnessing weis practice racist again Mr. Baldwin.

He's not too bright. Glad I didnt have any professors this dense in college

@smith lovy By my definition racism and white supremacy are one and the same. The definition also describes a problem that is not localized to this country, its global. When you say "jewish" do you mean "not white"? Are you describing a variety/subset of white?

@smith lovy You just attempted to tell me what MY definition is and you defined a word with that same word. Interesting. Thank you for your time.

You should go look at his debate with William F buckely lol

@@leonardu6094 I've seen it. My impression was that Buckley lost that one. Buckley didn't fare well against Baldwin, Chomsky, or Vidal. In terms of Baldwin, I've seen his debate with Malcolm X as well and again I think Baldwin won that one. I'm waiting to see a video or hear some audio where James Baldwin was not the more thorough thinker.

@@mpcc2022 I'll watch the debate with Malcolm X. I wasn't even aware there was one. what was the topic on?

leonard u Baldwin crushed Buckley, this is widely accepted. You must be the only one who thinks otherwise.

@@mmlas8683 "This is widely accepted" lol

It breaks my heart we would even still even
need this conversation today

Truth!

Just nowhere near as eloquently.

@Michael Oberg people like you is why we are still having the same discussion and still dealing with racists assholes like you.

Not sad at all, this convo should happen everyday with people

@@mimIsra1 oh god i dont want to know what this guy said lol

Tells you exactly why the state of white institutions matters.... because institutions maintain how things go more than any one individual can. People die and are born, and most of their lessons are passed down through institutions, not just family and neighborhood.

blame that on the culture he came from not doing a well-enough job of record keeping. the romans, greeks, persians, arabs, chinese, and japanese did that just fine. Why do people blame white people for the failures of a culture the Europeans (at most) exploited? It isn't the europeans that manufactured the selling of africans. They purchased africans who had already been captured by other africans.

cody humble that slavery in Africa predates the arrival of Europeans is not entirely relevant or even unique-in fact, the whole practice was rather incurious. After all, ancient Greeks in the Mediterranean and Peloponnesus took slaves as prisoners of war all the time. Creditors did the same when borrowers could not repay their debts. The economic practice of serfdom or the political concept of vassal states is simply a variation on the idea of enslavement.
The problem is the unique tragedy that befell the black man as a result of his enslavement. After being exported to a foreign land and being denied any sort of meaningful rights, even hundreds of years after his initial enslavement, generations of his descendants have had to bear the price of being born into bondage.
The problem isn’t pre-modern book-keeping practices. The issue is that institutional and systematized racism makes it very difficult for black Americans to stay afloat, let alone get ahead in this country.

@@codyhumble7855 you argument is childish and not only indefensible but also self-serving, and not entirely unexpected.

The best line I ever heard

@@codyhumble7855 Jesus Cody, you really are an idiot, aren't you?

Agreed, even William F Buckley paled in comparison (pun intended) confronted by him -- and his debate at the Oxford Union Debating Society is monumental.

@@v.c.webster9250can you elaborate ?

Could you elaborate?

Truth is power

@Tom Reviere Wow! Now that is the truth!

Power is afraid of the truth.

Damn..

@@DNAAS3 Real truth is power. John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

America did not deserve Baldwin.

@@charlesjonesjr1262 Absolutely

Tu hermana kklo9oo te ulmmklk

@Stephen Carter 🤣 stay mad

Not really he's just oblivious towards just racism, extremists. If you want to prevail and make a difference in the black community you have to be well educated

Yeah, I agree. He's also so brilliant. In the the end he took what that man had said about dealing with racism and encapsulated it for him in all walks of life and explained what he as a black man experienced, which had nothing to do with pseudo idealism that Weiss talked about as if it was real.

Yes

@@pamelamacneil1331 n

Individuality is the only real prescription to affect any real change in one's life; knowing one's personal history and other historical atrocities are critically important but ultimately will not yield feasible solutions. The conversation shouldn't be about whether or not humans have had the historic capacity to do awful things but what practical changes good people can do, in a less threatening environment, for themselves (in hopes of better affecting others), despite ethic background or whatever label you want to give an obstacle.

Practice makes perfect

He misunderstood nothing. He simply didn’t agree with Mr. Baldwin.

@@timprescott4634 agree or not, truth is always self evident, if you cant agree on facts and evidence then you might as well believe world is flat and moon is made of cheese

he was willfully obtuse because being open-minded towards Baldwin's position meant challenging his entire worldview

Cause he was seeing everything through his bullshit

Tim Prescott hey Tim, he seemed to misunderstand Baldwin’s point that a specific group of people (black in America) are fearful of physical harm, and prejudice by saying that all people face challenges and it’s up to each person individually to solve them by going on the journey of becoming a man.

Yeah, that had to be difficult. Amazing. And a good example.

By the end, notice that he won them over.

They were definitely clapping for him the more he spoke.

Paul Weiss had clearly not learned the difference between an argument and a harangue. Disgraceful behaviour from a supposedly educated man. Painful to watch. James Baldwin was in a class of his own.

@@mclohan Yes they were clapping for him the more he spoke because he was speaking logically and from the heart but with no rage .
He showed class and finesse .
Hope people will learn from him .
Like a true writer Baldwin was eloquent .

@TheWindAmongTheReeds It implies that your present state is only the result of the work of your predecessors. Your mannerisms, your dialect, your manner of thought, and yes, even your 'means' of wealth and ownership, are first and foremost determined by your familial, genealogical ties. It's why Anderson Cooper never has to really tell the truth or work a day in his life- he's a Vanderbilt. It's why Tucker Carlson can, on the opposite spectrum, get up and whine about 'elites' and other shadowy, nameless figures while also never having to work a day in his life- he's the heir to the 'Swanson' family fortune. To state that *every* man starts from 'scratch' is disingenuous at best.

Every man does

@@victorbergman9169 Unless you get a loan from your father for a just... I don't know... A million dollars!

@@Kopie0830 he started from scratch he might of been rich but personality wise he had to work because he was just another rich kid he had to claim his name and become recognizable across the world

@@victorbergman9169 I don't think we have too work on having a personality Imao, the Trump name was also recognized before him. He just took over his father when he died

I like your comment but the Barbie movie has more going on than meets the eye.

a lot of exceptionalism and whataboutwhoarisms lol.

True dat 🧐

And yet he handled that perfectly. He was amazing.

Because it's truth. It's sincere. Those who speak truth often express better thru the heart and mind expressing what is real and grounded. We all see it as opposed to some people who TRY to sound like they get it but not really.

They are. But what always amazes me even more when I watch Baldwin speak is that, although I'm sure he had thought so many things through beforehand, the ideas seemed to just pop out of his head in a sort of "as needed" basis. Like a jazz improviser but with meaningful words. If you've never watched the debate between him and William F. Buckley Jr. you should. It's astounding.

@@j.criquette3334 That debate convinced me that Buckley was a clever racist at heart and his rejection of Anti-Semitism was as purely strategic and ulterior as Cromwell’s.

@@j.criquette3334 I recently saw the debate between Buckely and Noam Chomsky, and boy was Buckley shown to be a charlatan of words there.

@@j.criquette3334 :First standing ovation [for Baldwin, not Buckley] in the history of the Cambridge Union debates.

What a joke considering all the examples of deaths, arrests of people of color for driving, selling water, walking, standing in public, looking at a house being constructed, sleeping in your bed, having the door of your house open, locking yourself out of your house or car. Have I missed any other scenarios?

Would it make you feel better if Thomas Sowell told him life isn't fair and to succeed you mist overcome

@Men In Black how was Baldwin a racist?

@Men In Black How is Weiss racist?

This is the beauty of these discussions. It exposes the raw truth. However, in today's cancel culture these discussions aren't possible.

@DROPKICK Chester In what way(s) do you think Weiss isn't decent or empathic?

So happy you found his voice. Like none other.

Also the greatest Baldwin ever

not to mention cut through being constantly interrupted. Baldwin sat calmly and civilly and listened patienly while Weiss talked. When it was baldwin's turn, Weiss wouldn't let Baldwin get a third of a sentence out before interjecting, basically heckling.
The interchange demonstrated Baldwin's point - He couldn't get a word in edgewise till he finally got fed up and made the man listen. the audience could fel it too - even that 60s white audience.

@@jv-lk7bc If he made him listen, then Weiss did let him talk. You’re completely contradicting yourself.

@@slapmyfunkybass “made him listening” implying he wasn’t listening before. No contradiction there

The spirit of truth grabbed Baldwin and made his last words incredibly powerful.

@@tango31313 Is it’s the spirit or thruth grabbing Baldwin? Or Baldwin grabbing truth? Or even really just that he eloquently narrates truth?

You are right Dav , so right !!!

He also went and lived in France instead of a culturally enriched African country

Canis Lupus
So he didn’t live in West Africa for a time? Wow, one can really learn a lot from YT commenters. Thanks!

Adam Mcgilchrist
He has no idea.

Canis Lupus maybe cos he was successful and wanted to live in more developed place that had less racial violence that that time . Maybe he liked the jazz that was happening as well

@@MrSuperbluesky "More developed" wow okay racist

If you look, Baldwin stayed away from debates which is unusual for intellectuals. He tend to prefer the format where he gets to make the accusations and no one is able or willing to counter.

@@BellicoseNation "If you look" 🤣🤣🤣

@@BellicoseNation I think this is better because that way you don't get lost in emotions and people call you out and ruin what you actually mean because you spoke too much.

the debate at oxford was a lot better than this farce.

You clearly don't know his background.

@@robertortiz-wilson1588 Paul Weiss doesn't come from a privileged group? Or James Baldwin doesn't come from an oppressed group?

@@user-tk1lf5hi6f first one.

@@robertortiz-wilson1588 Based on the idea that he's part of a group that has been oppressed for millenia or something specific about Paul's life?

At least he tried to make sense of what was happening back then, even though it was one-sided in his opinion, an opinion lacking in experience. The good doctor would've had to be in the black mans skin to really understand what it was like, but that wasn't the case when it comes to reality.

He’s a crybaby. A man who was successful in this county and was able to travel the world yet chose to still claim victimhood. Todays race hustlers would be proud.

That man tried so hard to teach someone way more self aware than him something he had no need to learn
Embarrassing 😳

@@jjones9822 GTFOH with that nonsense, Baldwin was treated much better while in France.

Care to guess the racial color of that audience?

Or just tired of it..

he's like "here we go again with this dumb argument. "

Indeed. The willful obliviousness and blind arrogance is astonishing. Baldwin is incredibly patient.

@@kimmclarin9756 There were so many telling moments that clearly displayed his stubborn defensiveness. There was one point in which he sat there hugging himself...which said SO much about his own insecurities.

Really? This is not what I’d call an incredibly rude opponent.

I'm really starting to fucking hate that expression. But, yes, he was an incredible person.

jpwjr1199 lolz .

Not one! 💯

My second time

The most shameful thing is it STILL tells you all you need to know about America.

I was thinking the same exact thing

He was talking in circles, and was low key patronizing literally mad no sense whatsoever.

And not because of the validity of mr.Weiss arguments?

That is the America they want to believe in.

Must watch

Let's be respectful please

Indeed, have watched a lot of him lately. Everything that has to be said has already been said, long ago.

@Adam Mcgilchrist I'm assuming this was just before Mr Weiss arrived. krplus.net/bidio/h7uvgZljaY6soXY

​@Adam McgilchristI cant agree or disagree with someone's life experience, I can only listen. I believe him. He was probably always the smartest person in the room - this room being no exception. Patience of a saint too.

Hostile environment?!? You've got to be kidding me. Was this comment made by Baldwin himself? Lol

Hostile? Lol

Look as the sons of Weiss.

hes lucky he had a sympathetic audience, imagine him in front of a neutral crowd in front of baldwin.

Professor Weiss is a great philosopher in American (AMERICAN) culture. Join in!

Can you explain what you mean by layers?

he's actually jewish

@@GerNiels I see.

Would we really utilize it? It was mostly wasted back then, I'm not sure we wouldn't waste it now.

@@Meng776 we can still learn from him. The truth

People are still saying the same things today that Baldwin said then. The problem is that there are also still a lot of people today who are like Weiss

Lol 😅

He couldn't do that else he'd be arrested, or better yet killed. We've always had to fight with more patience disguised as meekness.

💯😂

4:30 time stamp

Thus making his point for him.

@@davidcooke8005 Wrong. His point is based in blissful or willful ignorance. I was born in 1958, the law I referred to was enacted in 1954.....Jim Crow and it's cousins across the USA officially went kaput in 1968. From 1968 to the early 70's you had all the social upheavals going on (Vietnam, Civil Rights movement, etc). I went through the Catholic school system....less than 10 fellow black students were in my graduating class and the one before us. Having to occasionally fight with clowns who thought racial jokes were okay if done with a smile and "only kidding" attached. Also, walking through a "white town" to visit a class mate would occasionally be met with town cops or local "concerned citizens" stopping me to ask where was I going, etc. So You and Weiss were/are either in denial, ignorant or willfully ignorant as to what Baldwin was schooling him on. Sad.

@@vincentjenkins9688 Woooosh!

@@davidcooke8005 you are the one who has missed the point, it's the fact that the sentiment that kept black kids out of white schools was one that was so powerful and widespread amongst his parents' generation and his own was that it required federal intervention and legislation. That makes school integration legal, but a law being signed does not magically make the enmity millions of white people hold in their hearts go away. The same angry white people who marched in Little Rock and the same cops who hosed protestors in Alabama not too long ago are still alive, still voting, and raised children that they inevitably instilled similar beliefs.

In other words, they have their own struggles, which you are conveniently prepared to tell us that what he deems as an issue is truly a non issue.