Game Theory: Why You Can't Save Aerith With a Phoenix Down! (Final Fantasy 7)

Still better than FFXIV where somebody killed in a cutscene can be dead or just missing for half the game and show up again. Also deaths outside of cutscenes are possible

MATPAT NEEDS TO DO A WITCHER 3 THEORY

CATCH A RIDE

Or minecraft hardcore

Fire Emblem has entered the chat.

Bootyjuice Jenkins or cannon...😭

Yeap, in gameplay you can take multiple shotgun shells before dying, in a cutscenes you die to a single rifle bullet, absolutely ridiculous

Especially XC2 characters.

unless you're in a Devil May Cry game, or a game made by Platinum Games, in which case a cutscene means you're nigh unstoppable

Hyperion: We can always bring you back, unless you died in a cutscene.

They are explained in every situation as reviving someone from unconsciousness not death. Because when you die your life force returns to the stream as mako energy Wich can’t be restored

Well then they should rename them, because phoenixes come back from ashes, so they revive

that's exactly my thought

Too bad that is a retcon.

@@elliotburing87 not really, it's been a thing since FF4 (much before than FF7)

downy fresh smelling salts

@@MalekitGJ Or even FF5 when somebody important bites the dust.

@@cmelton6796 You know, RPGs are indpired by true tabletop rpg's and the phoenix down is very similar to saving rolls, for when characters fall unconscious, and of course potential other factord that could save a character.
I never thought of that till now lol

EXACTLY

I have no idea what this game is about but I know it's a rpg

I haven't played a single game lol, im so confused
like wtf is this dog

Yeah, I felt like this was in bad sprit l, even kinda mean. If someone managed to go all these years without being spoiled and bought the new game wanting to experience the FF7 story for themselves it sucks they get a major story like this from a random KRplus video. (Especially because there is already a Game Theory episode on Aerith's death)

I've never played it

Why cast "Arise" when you can cast "Rise from your grave!!!"

Be prepared and cast Reraise.

@@VJK102 Why cast "Rise from your grave!!!" when you can cast "You're finally awake"

The magic spell formally known as "Life"

@@yocats9974 why cast You’re finally awake when u can cast resurrection

it's no different to Pokemon's Revive

Eh, there are literally multiple spears sticking out of his stone body... Cure the stone and he would have a few moments of pure agony before true death took him. =/

@@StarNinja77 just get Nanaki or any of Cloud's gang to use Cure3 then

Err...the spear are still inside, and pretty deep.
‘Curing’ that would cause the spears to dig in deeper and cause even more pain

@@StarNinja77 I mean I personally would prefer death to being turned to stone and being unable to move for all eternity.

It's most likely that he died in the moments before his body turned completely into stone. Using Soft on him in that state would just cause the corpse to collapse into a heap. In a sense leaving him stoned like that turns his own body into a memorial to his bravery to protect his kin and homeland.

I misread that as Omnissiah. I have been reading too many Warhammer books lately apparently.

@@dylanconfer1116 I feel it brother, i know the feel

@Fire Mast3r Padawan 2 GACHA HINJAKU HINJAKU!
*freezes foe's legs*

@@mikailnascimento2823 Headbutt that subscribe button with your awakened god-plate to commune with its machine-spirit. Can you guess what book I'm reading?

Underwater materia. Or maybe a jesus materia?

WITH THE POWER OF HOLY!!!

Shallow Lake and dumped her near the cut off

In the event of a water burial, Cloud's forearms can be used as a flotation device.

With the magic called float.

Final Fantasy fan here.

@@Vriel659 I am not a fan of final fantasy, I just know my Roman numerals

@@Vriel659 we got a dum dum here

rip me i guess

Yup

Me

Stefan M. That was me I’m very sad now

The drawbacks of KRplus sometimes....

Thought the same thing. Explain yourself Matty!

stay in school not.. be youtuber...

Maybe you should stay in school...

@@campkira lol It would have been the editor.

Wow, smart, i am not aware of roman numerals and their meaning.

that's not it. here's the real problem: how Cait Sith work??? he's a stuffed animal (ultimania) and his big moogle is a robot, sooooooo... how? can Reeve create a new mind for non-living things (like full them with live I dunno) and controlling them when he wants to??? or he can control non-living things (but then he should do that like ALL the time and also have Bipolar disorder 'cause they seem so SO different with Cait)??? magic, you say? but if he owns some materia for that kind of things, TURKs would have taken it away long ago, because it is very useful, so I doubt it, wich leads us to a very strange result: Reeve can do magic without materia. like Cetra. 'cause you know only Cetra can cast magic without materia. lmao
real mystery

@@user-qf6li2wv4i I'm pretty sure Cait Sith is just a remote controlled plush toy cat and moggle. Both the cat and moggle are toys that Reeve's can control with a stupendous range.

@@ski4567 yeah, plush toy and not a robot! how???

@@user-qf6li2wv4i If you ever had a old toy robot when you were a young child that had a controller, same process. Cait Sith has a receiver inside with some kind of wiring and robotic insides covered in plush and fluff, this making him a toy/robot. Its not that wild thinking about it.

@@ski4567 yeah it's probably this guide with 'staffed cat' thing that make me think of some strange theories...

F

F
MEGA

@@vchrono9839 KAKYOIN

How does it Feels Like Reliving it Again only in HD Cutscene?

@C R I was guessing it's also because he was probably into Mariah Carey but your guess was as good as mine.

DEW IT!

ironic.
And now I realized I just quoted him.

DII IT NOW!!

I am the 66th thumb up

STEW IT!

Can we skip eight and go straight to FF9? There was some seriously weird shiz up in that nest.

FF8 Is my Favorite Game of All time, And It is Older than I am, I would LOVE to see some FF8 Theories.

Oh nooooo 😂

Me too

@@mysteryshadow5m439 Gamer Respect

Nice

Who needs Phoenix Downs when you can just break the game?

Wait, really? As a kid, I heard a rumor that putting BackStreet Boys Millenium CD,
Instead of Disc 3, would revive her after a dancing mini game...

Wasn't there a strange part in the game where she actually did have a single line she spoke to the party if you did that? I think it was up on the mountain with all the horrible snowstorm weather... But its been a long time so I could be remembering wrong.

Cult Boy And I also heard that you could unlock Luigi in Super Mario 64 by somehow sliding an entire plate of pasta into the cartridge slot.

Still I hope they expand this scene with similar scenario, so people wouldn't be confused why they did nothing. I also suspect that if Sephiroth infected her with Jenova, it could cause serious shock to Cetra. We do know that both don't mix too well (eghm... Cloud).

As someone mentioned on a similar comment: FF5 actually came out AFTER FF7 outside Japan. Even then, the series was pretty niche until 7 came out, bringing it to the mainstream.

@@TheKrossRoads FFIV and FFVI were relatively well known. At least until you consider SNES as obscure in general.

Although in XII there is a status effect called Doom but you could use a Phoenix Down to revive them

@@Dat_DekuBoi It is in majority of the games.

How does the ending make it ironic?

@@goldenvexa6288 SPOILERS FOR REMAKE
Pretty much it's seems like Sephiroth wants Aerith to survive to prevent her from helping Holy from the Lifestream. He is goading Cloud to try to save her with the "Seven Seconds" comment

Fair. Feel that. Total immersion breaker there.

my sweet 16 :)

Its has been a good year for gamers

SciFactsYT I didnt ask but thanks for the KNOWLEDGE

SciFactsYT .. huh I didn’t know that, how long does it stay close to the sun?

SciFactsYT other random fact russia is bigger than pluto in land mass

Ok

And that's why Pluto is a dwarf planet.

what is considered a battle? technically its as if sephiroth did a surprise battle called: back attack, but her hp was not high enough to survive a single hit. she was the sole party member so its game over for her. oh god...that's why she died. i hate that i figured this out.

A battle is that thing where the screen changes and you get the attack menus. She was in a cutscene, which is a horrible place for a character to be if they don't want to die or be gravely injured.
Heck, she could have been wounded on the map - even run through - and still had a 50/50 chance, considering Cloud was skewered in his flashbacks.
Had she gotten a game over, she could have reloaded her save and caught up with everyone.

Final Fantasy 4 disagrees

Been too long since I played FFIV. Refresh my memory.

@@MrSkysenGames most of the cast of ff4 "dies" out of battle, but is found to have survived later.
A notable exception is Tellah, who dies... After overexerting in battle reducing his own HP to 0. They even attempt life spells and phoenix downs on him.

Thought I was the only one hahahaa

I saw it too xD

r/facepalm

I want to see him discuss the theory how Squall might be dead due to Ultimecia's demise, and how she might be Squall's girlfriend.

24 years ago and still painful as hell.

Cloud accidentally drowns her. She was still possibly still alive before if paralysed but alive.

*matpat

To*

Yeah I noticed that too.

Right!

If you check the developer reports on the game's development, there's a part that describes that Aerith was actually never supposed to die, it was late in development when they decided that Aerith was going to die. Meaning, they had items planned for her that went ultimately unused, but there probably was no time to elimate all evidence, again, showing that they changed plans way too late in development. Dataminers also uncovered lines of dialogue that would have been used, of her reacting to things after her passing.

Tifa was added late in development, though. She was only added after Aerith's death was decided.

It contains the memories and experiences of the dead, in fact--which is how it imparts its powers to the wearer.

@@GoldieTamamo I was pointing out the process in how it's created, not what defines the magic contained within them.
It's explained in one of the cutscenes, I forgot which ones.
Mako is made from condensing the Lifestream into a liquid state, Materia is formed when condensed further into a solid.
I'm pretty sure it was Sephiroth that said this.

@ValorJ Omega I want to say it was in Crisis Core that you get a cut scene showing a naturally formed materia.. Theres a tree near a mako stream that forms one ever X years and you got "lucky" enough to be there during its completion..

@@mrj5256 I'm going to say it was Sephiroth describing how the condensers at the Nibelheim reactor are supposed to work before looking into one of them and finding Hojo's experiment.
There is the naturally-formed materia in Crisis Core, but I don't remember there being an explanation there.

The naturally-occurring mako fountain and materia exist in both the orignal game and crisis core, as does the explanation.

Captain Armageddon I’m sure he has or at least mentioned it briefly.

Up

TRGA randomic ?

Yeees that would be awesome

U say up for up the comentary is good when u dont have a good think to talk and u want to that comentary go up

🤭

Wasn’t that a different game theory episode?

@@shadowstriker6506 maybe? I remember it from years ago, so it’s possible

dude its a really old game and its VERY popular

@@vergil_6707 Exactly, its so old there's a new generation of people who haven't played the original. People who know nothing about the game and want to come in blind. Whether or not Aerith truely dies doesn't matter because they'll think she will and try not to get attached to her.

same happened here :'c

@@Withered741 ^

Aglae Juarez same

although now days in D&D you dont have to drop to -max HP to die just fail 3 death saves
BUT if a creature can deal enough damage to you to ether -max hp or twice that you die INSTANTLY

No they changed now if your stable you have to make a con saving throw if it’s above ten you save if not you don’t if you make it three times your stable and nothing happens if you fail three times you die you Also still die if negative damage goes over your health

yeh i was gonna say it but you did it better its DnD rules

@@asrieldreemurr1988 Death saves aren't con saves, they're just a straight d20.

0Hp does really mean that you are just knocked out. Except when you’re the persona 3, 4, or 5 protagonist. In those three games, if your hp reaches 0 you do die.

Everyone:Doom eternal animal, crossing final,fantasy remake this year is AWWSOOMMEEEE
Me:POOOSSSTTAAAAALLLL 4

Gamers who lost their jobs due to pandemic: :')

magnificentadao
Sameee

Except that in FF5 they already established that Phoenix Downs can't revive a person if they're fatally wounded (a party member dies and the rest tries everything to save him: Curaga, Life spell, Phoenix Down, and Elixir to no effect). Only reason there's even a debacle on the matter is because the West didn't receive FF5 until after FF7 and even then the ways to play it through official channels are very limited.

@@tyronetiggums6441 Still I hope that they clarify that in the remake. Simplest solution would be that Sephiroth infected her, making her revive impossible.

K

You gotta save the world, that's the only way.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERS

@Liam Walker Rinoa from FF8 has an ability called Angelo Cannon, where she fires her dog Angelo at enemies.

In Final Fantasy, characters are not really "killed" during combat, they are just knocked out, "unable to fight" or "disabled". Some games even clearly state that Phoenix Down is used to "revive" UNCONSCIOUS characters. If all characters are unable to fight, then your party is "wiped out" (dead) because everyone is unconscious and unable to stop the enemies from actually killing them.

D. Nightone True, when Aireth reaches 0 hp in the remake, sometimes she said “ I'm gonna rest for a while” and as for Cloud “I can't move” soo that doesn't mean they are really dead, just unconscious.

Wandering Ghost when someone is downed in the remake, it says “(name) is unconcious”

In final fantasy 6, if someone goes to 0 hp the just get “wounded

all the ffs are on different worlds in the same universe so maybe on the ff7 world pheonix downs are manufactured differently than in the ff3 world

That's the official answer as well

This man just solved all our problems

This is the worst truth i have ever seen

Still confused, apparently getting stabbed just means your unconscious ... huh

@@InGreatPainIAm no, what they mean is getting stabbed IS WORSE than being unconscious and thus a phoenix down isn't enough to save her

Lynnara Rosewater THIS. Haunts me still.

Nah, we need a supersoft

Because he was in stone for too long and using Soft on him would just make a statue into a rotten corpse. It is actualy explained rather clearly in the game itself, as Seto wasn't just petrified, he was also poisoned, and if you happen to get petri and poison in any regular fight, you'd know that petrification doesn't stop poison from chunking out you HP.

@@catnat6571 No. We needed... A Square Soft.

Because the plot says it can’t. It’s like in the Mass Effect games where your shield doesn’t work in the cutscenes.

yes...accidentally

lol

Same

I was thinking about that theory when the episode first started. XD

cockatielsrule1300 right same funny thing is his theory now would debunk his old theory

You forgot the Olaf laugh hahaha

Well luckily Sephiroth came in and prevented that from happening...so he can impale more people.

Thats what I've always thought

That is generally what KO stands for, yeah.

Azhrei Vep No, really? 🙄

Think of it as like in tabletop games, when your HP hits zero, but you're not treated as "dead" yet, though in that case, its coz of death saving rolls. You're not dead, but you're in mortal danger. FF Tactics addresses that better, frankly, but it's waived in others games for convenience's sake.
And really, Final Fantasy V already addressed that, so people arguing for her revival with a Phoenix Down or Life spell don't know what they're talking about, when those failed to work on a character that actually dies.

Yes thank you people need to realize that in rpg like ff or Pokémon they faint or knocked unconscious

Man poor Galuf. Even the characters tried to revive him

@@elguno6398 This is one of the reasons why I find Galuf's death so emotional compared to Aerith. They didn't even bother trying to revive her whereas all of the main characters and HIS OWN GRANDDAUGHTER in V did everything they could to try to save him yet even stuff like Phoenix Downs wouldn't work.

Rest in peace Galuf

@@DeskoDev HIS LITTLE GIRL USING MULTIPLE HEALING MAGIC TO HEAL HIM WAS SO HEARTBREAKING!!! 😭😭😭😭 I actually cried my eyes out when he died against Exdeath. I legit had to stop playing for a day or 2. Or 3... or a week...

V was my first ff game and i still get sad about his death RIP

Thats because soft has to be administered ASAP to prevent any permanent damage, Sato sadly was a statue for far too long.

i mean… why would you think soft would work on someone who's been turned to stone YEARS ago?
obviously he would be dead by the time redXIII even gets there. due to malnutrition and thirst. whats inside that layer of magic stone is a dead rotten corpse. ofcourse soft doesn't work then anymore.

@@cherrydragon3120 Sato's statue cried though.

If you're willing to accept evidence from outside FF7, in FF9 the character Blank is petrified early on in the game. To cure him, a special "Super Soft" has to be obtained much, much later in the plot. This suggests that either the ordinary Soft only works on the *_recently_* petrified or that petrification exists in multiple degrees and that Softs only cure the lower tiers of the ailment. As far as we know, "Super Soft" doesn't exist in FF7's world.

@@ArcaneEther That and also the fact that Seto /Willingly/ wanted to stay petrified to become a "living" monument to protect his family's home from whatever force was going to destroy it. so while yes even though his body is still petrified, the soul still resides in that rock; unknown to whatever has happened on the planet. But the sheer force of Red-XII's sadness and regret reached the soul of Seto and thus, creating the tear. so even if they could, i dont think Seto would become un-petrified.

this is also true!

Boom

Well that would have made the theory 30 seconds long haha... And not a theory

It's common knowledge for anyone who's played the original

@@psychticambitin7987 *NEW generation is the key word there.

Do you honestly think the new generation is playing other games besides fortnite/minecraft?

ikr wtf. right as a new version of the game comes out that many people want to play, let's just make sure to ruin it for anyone new. now from game theorists: spoilers sent straight to your inbox!

@@chronofantasy1987 yes? Seriously thinking they dont is very boomer of you.

I remember Nomura saying in an Advent Children behind the scenes clip that Materia is made from the memories in the Lifestream. In the Before Crisis mobile game, you supposedly could take pictures with your phone camera and turn it into Materia, so not all Materia is naturally occuring.

You could even look at Final Fantasy 7. When the Pheonix dies later in the game, you see the Baby Pheonix and the Materia come out of it.

You probably read it in game. Hojo describes how materia is formed in the Nibelheim flashbacks in Kalm town, when you come across a natural materia in the Nibel mountains.
Really though, the revive from KO thing seems pretty obvious, at least to me - I didn't even really think about it until I actually saw this question asked like 15-20 years ago, but honestly, Occam's Razor - what's the most likely reason people aren't using Phoenix Downs left, right and centre to revive any person that dies? Because it doesn't revive the dead.

Ah, the "Squall is dead" theory. Hadn't read about that one in a while. Brings back so many memories.

that was just a prank to scare people. In the real ending, he just stares at the sky then fall after seeing the broken space helmet.

Squall became more "open minded"

I rlly do believe it was squalls death that we were witnessing at the end. Even though the writers said it themselves that it wasnt dead, the theory is so eerily on point it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.
The ending itself was a whoke life flashing before your eyes and it was mostly all cgis from disc 1. At the end of disc 1 when Edea impales squall with a large ice through his heart, you gotta ask yourself why is it you that you wake up in the next disc in a prison w/o any wounds or at least a scar?

@@XxXxXJerseyKidXxXxX
The ice impalement was not in his heart, When I played it. it was on the wrong side. but his HP 0 he was unconscious. I don't think so, he his main character. I don't know any other main characters that dies. Specially when they are the one you play has. The ending doesn't make much sense to me, but I am not that far. So I don't have any idea. But its odd that the other group doesn't jump in to help out the fight.

Well they 'knew' Terra existed. Its just that Terra itself is a Moon sized Moon shaped Ship that took up orbit around the planet. No one had the tech to travel space to it in order to investigate, so they just assumed it a second moon. Its the same in Four, the Moon was a large space ship that arrived at the primitive world and just stayed there waiting until Blue Planets' civilization had advanced enough so they could meet.
In 9's case, the purpose is more sinister. The Terrians are hiding there waiting for all the Gaians to die out so they can take over the planet. They don't want to people to know they exist. Their souls are sleeping inside the that moon and the Geonomes exist as soul jar vessels for them to possess when its time to leave.

For the IX theory, ask yourself this. If someone said another planet's spiritual core had essentially taken over the Earth's, and here was some vague evidence of that, would you believe them?

FF9 is a classic steam punk/medieval fantasy... You should think of it as medieval but with steam tech.
Education levels of the average person would not be that incredible.
Also they knew it existed, but if I remember correctly they just thought of it as a moon.
A common theme of Gaia and Terra in games and anime is that they're polar opposite mirror worlds (basically Jin/Yang but in an astrological setting).
The population of both thinking the other is a moon.

Dead bodies dont drown... they float....

@@VoidCron ....Initially, bodies will likely sink to the bottom, but as bodies decompose and gasses are released in the body, the corpse will rise back to the surface as a result of buoyancy.

Just a saying bud

@@VoidCron It really isn't.

Heard it somewhere, thanks for the science though. I can definitely use that one of these days. No sarcasm intended

Have a feeling that with the better character development, especially with one certain person, in the remake - I'm gonna get scarred again. T_T

Yaaaay more depression

you don't know aerith is around when fight last boss...in remake..

ey reference to that oney cartoon

Here before its pinned

Couldn't you remove the sword

Your local vault 13 Deathclaw take the mf sword out then revive

Bruh

The shouldn't exist...

Some are... but others vanish into green mist (Lifestream?)

Yup

Thats how its always been ko is the status that phoenix down and raise heals

Final. Fantasy. IX.

Rinoa is Ultimecia is a theory?

@@buster1746 it was proven wrong by the developers

@@buster1746 Is been a theory for a long time. The developers can say what they want, but the woman is using Griever as a Guardian Force; which is Squalls Necklace. Why would she do that?

@@buster1746 I would just say that the reason this theory is so defended is because with it, FF8 is a tragedy, without ? It's a mediocre emo drama

@@buster1746 Actually it's explained in the game that whenever a sorceress's powers are activated, Edia, Rinoa, Adel, they are actually possessed by Ultimicia.

Evere JoJo fans knows this one truth to be real.

@@animefanrk2k
Final Fantasy Fans: "Omg Aerith's death is too depressing, I'll never be able to recover from this."
Jojo Fans: "First time?"