Norman Finkelstein and Chris Hedges discuss Israel, Gaza, Oct. 7 at Princeton

And we are forced to pay for it with extreme inflation! 😖

Hey! Your feelings are shared by many people here.
I would like to provide some historical perspective that may help situate our shared concerns. The perspective that I am about to provide is not an excuse, but rather a plea for remaining vigilant. My country was involved in a war with Vietnam for 10 years. During that time period, thousands were drafted, particularly from poor and historically marginalized communities to go fight the Vietcong. Many more thousands of Vietnamese were bombed into oblivion. There were so many protests here against the war. It made us question who we were as Americans and what we believed about the idea of , "stopping communism". Stopping our participation in that war took ten years. Ten years.
This conflict could take even more time, especially because it's not a war in the legal sense. I am sharing this because psychologically and spiritually these kind of traumas on the world have a wounding effect that goes beyond the sorrow of the pictures and the headlines. We are all digitally witnessing plausible genocide. None of us were prepared to see the innocents die such sadistic painful deaths in real time.
Our feelings of fecklessness are wounds that try the heart, test friendships, take employment, and steal bread from your mouth. If you speak to what you see, you are silenced.
What do we do?
Partly, we do what we're doing right now; we write with the hope that others are not silenced by the theeat of speaking the truth. Perhaps it is the satiflsfaction of knowing that those who do not know the past are doomed to repeat it and we are like the etymology of the word, Jeremiad, writing in the comments section hoping our shared concerns for doom become a real opportunity to rectify what we all portend? Perhaps acknowledging the historical or studying it, girds us spiritually for what could be a long fight for justice? Knowing our shared global interactions as citizens of the world motivates us all to be good students of our past so as to bring a peaceful future for all?
I am with you, as are millions of others. You're not alone...study hard.

This genocide has been going on for past 80 years unfortunately

А вы уверены, что вы - еврей?! У еврея должно быть много более глубокое понимание, ведь еврей - по определению это человек на связи с Богом!

This 55 year old guy feels the same as you do, I hope someday we see truthful peace

Look up (on other platforms) and read "The Hidden Tyranny" an interview with insider Harold Wallace Rosenthal in 1976.
He was reverse alived less than a month later for what he told.

Без понимания плана великого иерусалимского муфтия Мухаммада Амина аль-Хусейни, без понимания оснований его плана, все рассуждения о конфликте арабов и израильтян бессмысленны и бесплодны. События-то происходят на Святой земле. Здесь общепринятые критерии неприменимы. А события происходят по плану муфтия, даже несмотря на то, что умер он 4 июля 1974 года... Еще раз напоминаю - земля то Святая!

Hate to say it but keep wishing. I'm 40 and I doubt I'll see it at this point

@@Nick_CF Technically they already are liberated in Israel they're just not liberated in Palestine.

@@fifteenbyfive lol by liberated you mean being third class citizens in an apartheid state?

​@@CFX992Arab Israelis live equally as the Jews: access to education at all levels, quality healthcare and jobs at all levels. Not what I saw in a documentary, but I know it. So go back and review your source, Mr. Lol.

@@CFX992 Well we DON'T know the PLAN of GOD ALL Mighty....coz a people who oppressed others...DON'T live very long

Yep, they're funding their own wishes.

Just about any rule you put on billionaires funding elections will not keep the currently politically connected out of politics, but their rivals.
If campaign contributions are limited, you can buy newspapers, news/media outlets, sponsor events/positions in higher Ed (ect). But if someone who is opposed to the current political elite donates in an improper manner or amount, the book will be thrown at them

💯

Public money only in elections, no private money - this would help!@@huntermarkson7766

The Supreme Court must revisit its 2010 Citizens United Decision - which allowed unlimited funding of elections by High Finance. Then again, this would be too late for 2024! @@AlleLamb

dr. gabon matte is great too

Chris is no slouch

This is the man (Mr Finkelstein) who wrote in Twitter: ....."it warms every fibres of my soul....." referring the horrendous-monstrosities of the 7 October. And on a Candace Owens programme titled “Israel vs. Palestine with Norman Finkelstein” he said on great length how horrendous and miserable is for a mother who is about to give birth not to have facilities in a hospital because Israel's bombardment. My opinion: It has to be something terrible wrong in Norman’s faculties.

​@@olgam601 he later explained why he made those comments and said he condemned the Oct 7th atrocities

@@olgam601 NO SOUL NOT EVEN WHERE HE SITS

💯

Always have been

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

💯

You were fortunate to have had that opportunity.

why? they are both nuts

I'm grateful you had the opportunity to attend as well, but really folks......really? Do you actually need to hear it from a Phd. in order to a arrive at, and comprehend the same moral conclusions???

So sad I miss this attendance because I didn't get to meet you

​@@darenlhoenyk5780
Does everyone under 20 understand the history behind Oct. 7th. I ask because you obviously do not.
ormaybeyoureonlyarobocop

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

NOBEL PRICE
I would undoubtedly award the Nobel Prize for History to ILAN PAPPE and NORMAN FINKELSTEIN.
They are and were the fact-oriented sources on how to understand the Middle East conflict.
The world has a right to the truth, so their work deserves special recognition at this difficult time.
Nobel Prize for NORMAN and ILAN
Pulizer Prize for GIDEON LEVY

Chis and Norman are not amazing. They are simply decent 😊

@@MichaelJoseph-id2lc and fing smart and brave.

Blame Hamas.

Sorry but im not buying it.

@@mikeg2306 right after your blame israel for oct 7 and the holocauste

@@MrWiseGuy1974 Blame israel for the holocaust? huh.

@@Trickey2413 it is just like blaling hamas for what is going on in Gaza, HUH...

Agreed the man is legendary!

True. But Chris defers to Norman as a good scholar and researcher would do.

Chris Hedges and Norman Finkelstein are not only inspiring by their moral integrity but are exemplar in how to calibrate the truth

it's an odd prospect for me to argue for the relative ignorance of Chris Hedges, one of the most learned men of our time, probably of anytime; but it's unnecessary as well as foolish to say he knows as much about Palestine as Norman Finkelstein, who has been singularly focused on the conflict for the past few decades and written a number of extremely rigorous, if not uniquely scrupulous, books on the subject. He has read AND studied thousands of pages of human rights records meticulously and synthesised them in his works. And this is without touching the legal texts, court documents, political and historical works he has studied and mastered. I have read many many of Chris Hedges' articles and continue to read them, starting from the Truthdigg days to the Common Dreams platform articles to the Scheer Post material and his Substack posts currently. I have read two of Chris' books and all of Norman's books, except the latest 'I'll burn that bridge....' which I started reading but stopped after Oct 7 incident and now re-reading all of Norman's previous books. Chris is obviously very knowledgeable on the subject - perhaps more than most other public intellectuals. Chris also remains one of the most important moral voices on whom I and thousands others rely on for clarity and enhancing understanding of world affairs. But it's foolish to compare Chris' knowledge on Palestine to Norman's.

They both have an internal metric for judging what is true - unlike those on Morning Joe!@@albertbrandenburg720

How lucky u were

@@abdimohamed8640How lucky we all are to have at leisure access to this anyway from just about anywhere on the planet.

Change is inevitable, for better or worse depends on our shared humanity or lack thereof.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

Yes ssssss

NOBEL PRICE
I would undoubtedly award the Nobel Prize for History to ILAN PAPPE and NORMAN FINKELSTEIN.
They are and were the fact-oriented sources on how to understand the Middle East conflict.
The world has a right to the truth, so their work deserves special recognition at this difficult time.
Nobel Prize for NORMAN and ILAN
Pulizer Prize for GIDEON LEVY

Economic development via the Oasis Plan of Shimon Peres - is key to an enduring peace for all sovereign States in the region! @@vaclavkubicek2970

" The first time the phrase “human animal” was recorded in history was by himmaliar, in The Posen speech to SS officers (6 October 1943) - On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr
There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%"
-Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well'
-Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband'
Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh
UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023:
2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440.
2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255.
2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492.
2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300.
2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138.
2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30.
2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349.
2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191.
2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227.
civilian deaths on the other side -
2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9
2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26
Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel.
Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc
The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Yinon Plan.

@@mznxbcv12345 I wish I could copy and past your post.

​@@mznxbcv12345"himmaliar" I'm borrowing that one 😅

Very strange how the world witnesses crimes without reacting. Palestinian civilians are used as shields. Cameras are strapped to their bodies and they are sent to explore buildings. If the building is boobytrapped the civilian dies, if not he is killed after he comes back and that in order to leave no witness. Horrendous crime.

@@qtsmlearning Why you cannot?

How should Israel treat them, while Hamas was spending all the donated money in tunnels? That’s demanding a bit too much from Israel, don’t you think so? Since 2005 that Israel left them on their own, and just look what happened? The can’t feed themselves!

Where were the Palestinians, when the Romans conquered Judea ? Did they fight for their land ?? I'll wait.

@@robocop4209read some history , like Schlomo Sand .
Just as likely today’s
“ Palestinians “ were Jews who stayed put in the region and converted to Christianity and Islam over time .
Those migrating in the last 100 years are just as likely converts to Judaism from what is now
Persia , Eastern Europe , North Africa .
Frankly from my POV , arguing over ancient history and DNA is a waste of time .
Dealing with reality in the 21st century , how about we say religious states are inherently un democratic and have no place in the future .
One secular state with equal rights for all , right of return for displaced Palestinians or Jews.

Israel is a jew country
Pakistan islamic
Europe christian, etc...

Dr. Spencer Wells demolished all arguments around the notion of so called chosen people.

Makes it all the worse. That we watched, and understood.

Mind Begs the Question:
- If policies of Starvation,Death Camps,Pogroms,Gas Chambers/White Phosphorus,Ethnic Cleansing,etc are repeated
- Doesn't amount to Holocaust?

Dare say that is an unsubstantiated cliché, as the documentation of the N*z* genocide against God's chosen people, collected over the last 70+ years, is beyond compare.

@@castelodeossos3947most of the data was compiled after the fact. That’s not to say the Germans didn’t have their own classified documentation.
But this is public and being recorded in real time.

@@mochapella We watch, we understand + we protest ✊
And we call + email our legislators every single day 📱

welcome to 2002

I too feel the same way. It just shows how important the work of Norm Finklestien and others is.

Really? Just listening to his bla, bla you feel much courage, etc? I feel sorry for you. Actions speak louder than words.

And he's right! 🙂💯👍

​This is a recent video.

We need to know history/context. When we just ‘take action’ we become animals

We must keep the protests in the streets.the boycott, explain to people what is happening and the history of the colonization of Palestine by the Zionists and support concrete actions, especially that of code pink and others on the delivery of war planes and other military equipment.

What action do you suggest?

@@wizzyno1566 ECONOMIC SANCTIONS. The world can do it. Russia has thousands and thousands of sanctions put on them. Israel has very few, if any. You ruin their economy, all those dual citizen settlers will leave with their own legs and they will have no choice but to change what they are doing.

@@wizzyno1566 UN Peace keeper deployment?

This time israel got its lawn mowed

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

@@ashley264 Like by Assyria Babylon and Rome there will be a fourth exile. Genocide is a no no!

@ashley, that's why no one wanted Isreal after WWII. Thieves

​@@ashley264Refugees are very expensive, as we are finding out in the USA, and Egypt is even broker than us.

The use of the capital letters doesn't make the comment any less dumb

Your use of capital and small letters doesn’t make you correct.

@@halifaxeh but the fact that Israel always wins and jihadists always lose does

@@halifaxeh DOES TOO

In Europe/ Britan there is a 80k member movement to put their taxes in escrow and NOT to a govt participating in genocidal massacres.

Good question, my fear is that US admin is so blind and governed by Israel that haven't notice that the Global South is raising fast and US is in decline (the dollar is not used for trading in many countries just an example) only mass immigration seems to be in the increase. The world is upsidown!

I like these guys a lot. I buy their books and read them. But I think we need to make some distinction between those who describe things and those who take action and risk themselves.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

Very sorry, to equate the fight for so-called social justice with criticism of Israel's crimes is to trivialise those crimes, and to cheapen Dr Finkelstein's cause, his commitment, and the sacrifices he has made for the cause.

@@castelodeossos3947
Seriously?
Being a Social Justice warrior is the most honorable thing anyone can do, and you have not articulated how fighting for civil rights could
Ever be beneath this distinguished gentleman.
He is one of he very few academics with integrity enough to speak truth to power, and to demean praise of him impugns the context
Of such self sacrifice..

So much integrity to side with Putin and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, truly a champion of human rights and social justice all around the world

NOBEL PRICE
I would undoubtedly award the Nobel Prize for History to ILAN PAPPE and NORMAN FINKELSTEIN.
They are and were the fact-oriented sources on how to understand the Middle East conflict.
The world has a right to the truth, so their work deserves special recognition at this difficult time.
Nobel Prize for NORMAN and ILAN
Pulizer Prize for GIDEON LEVY

@@vaclavkubicek2970 Good idea but, alas, no Nobel Prize for History. Winston Churchill won the prize for literature for his tome 'The Second World War' as well as for his speeches, but it was for their literary quality that he was given the prize. He himself had wished he would win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Two great champions of humanity . ❤

two great champions of humanity.

Spot ON! Excellent Comment! Vocal Spoke Persons for the Very Root and Very Best Off of What(?) it Means(?) to be Conscious HUMAN! Divinity at is Finest Courtesy of the Fading First Amendment. Thanks!@@vilmathomas5158

That's not saying much . Disgrace

@@vilmathomas5158 Satan

But ethnic cleansing and the mass cessation of Judea's enemies has always been a foundational aspect of Judaism.
Have you even bothered to read the contents of their Torah and Talmud?

​@@pianoandguitarlover2773the talmud and "oral torah" are so contrary to the written Torah, they literally break every single commandment.

❤

@@pianoandguitarlover2773 don't confuse the Torah with talmud, they are opposites. Oral torah is bunk& that's what talmudic Jews go by

@@pianoandguitarlover2773 precisely, the old testament is an instruction manual for genocide and what happens to the genocidal when they dont carry out the orders of their evil genocidal god.

NOBEL PRICE
I would undoubtedly award the Nobel Prize for History to ILAN PAPPE and NORMAN FINKELSTEIN.
They are and were the fact-oriented sources on how to understand the Middle East conflict.
The world has a right to the truth, so their work deserves special recognition at this difficult time.
Nobel Prize for NORMAN and ILAN
Pulizer Prize for GIDEON LEVY

what does the watermelon emojii stand for?

@@kupper123 symbolic of the shape of Palestine

"scholars"

@@hmmmmmmminteresting not sure what you mean by your comment but anyone who studies a foreign topic, or any topic for that matter, for decades is a scholar in my mind. These men ain’t no spring chickens.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

💯

Be careful who you trust he already said that we're not going to listen to anybody and going to invade remember those words

Thank you.
Please see my comment saying exactly what you are saying.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

I just filled out a wrong number on my Tax form. Like many others on TikTok I'm not paying for this. What are they going to do? I'd like to see the government dragging all of us to court for not paying for a genocide. They don't tax the rich and the homeless, middle class is paying for this genocide. Boycott the government. Money is the best way to protest.

More than bravery is principle!

Dr. Finkelstein's candidness:
About the international doctors who go to Gaza, a de@th zone, to help the Gazans, he said, "Would I have done it?..........(after a long pause and a sigh...) I would feel the moral pressure, but the fear would have got the better of me."

aka DARVO

The irony is that the Palestinians are the actual free people and we all are occupied..

Once they get rid of HAMAS

Maybe Norman Finklestein can go live with them.

@@tsuiters
If 1947 did not happen no (-)@nn@s would have come in 1987.

@@tsuiters they were free before Hamas took over. Prosperous employed in Israel , relied electricity from Israel at discounted fares. Israel provided Gaza with drinking water that their desalinations plant , bought Gaza's produced and collaborated with many of Israel industries. Please refer to vids shot in Gaza before 2007, main boulevard fool of markets , food galore, the beach board walk with fanatic villas , large boulevards, restaurants, cafes, fancy European cars etc. that would put Beirut to shame. Now Gaza looks like Dresden , end of WWII just like the nazis brought the destruction upon themselves , Hamas brought disaster upon Gaza while they hide like rats in tunnels instead to fighting the IDF

What a clown (1:31:18) to think he 'scores a point' against Dr Finkelstein by uttering a Jewish slogan, as if the good doctor gives a toss. How conceited can you get.

precious teac*in moments!