Korean Age Culture - Should Koreans the formal or informal to Foreigners?
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- 게시일 2020. 07. 08.
- It's actually way more complicated than you think over here. Nobody means bad, but now that Korean has a larger population, people are finding it harder to distinguish how to probably address each other here. It's actually quite cool to see how we're all molding ourselves to fit a weird pseudo sub culture haha. Enjoy the video :)
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Is it me or Sam lost a lot of weight
yea he recently said in an episode of The Return of Superman that he lost 14kgs
Is it me or Sam lost a lot of weight and his voice changed too 🤨
I love chubby Sam but this one is not that bad
@@nicole5166 woh i didnt know that :O
A LOT OF WEIGHT... he already looked good but now he looks really really good!
처음본 사람한테 외국인이라고 반말을 해야된다는 뇌를 가지고있으면 어떤 인생을 산거냐
진짜 일반적인 사고방식이랑 다른 사고방식을 가진사람들은 진짜 신기함
혼동이 아니라 외국인들이 한국어 어설퍼서 반말해도 존댓말을 써야죠. 제 경험인데 알게된지 얼마안된 저보다 어린 외국교환학생 친구가 반말할때 제가 계속 존댓말하니, 그친구가 왜 계속 같은 '요'라는걸 하냐고 물어보길래 존댓말 이라고 설명해줬어요. 그 뒤에 어학당선생님께 물어봤는지, 형이라고도 하고 존댓말도 해주더라구요.
상대방은 어설퍼도 되지만, 우리가 한국말과 문화를 바로 가르쳐줘야 그 친구에게도 도움이 되는게 아닌가 싶습니다.
@@kidokim2855다만, 외국인이므로 형이라고 할지 이름 부를지는 외국인의 선택으로 해 주었으면 좋겠습니다. 다른 한국인들과 대화할 때는 주의가 필요하겠지만요.
off topic but i rlly wanna see dave interact with william and bentley
Tbh yessss
Up
Yesssss
PLEASE
YES
외국인이라고 함부로 반말하지 좀 맙시다..
그런 인간들이 외국인이 지들한테 반말하면
게거품물며 뒷목잡음 ㅋ
두 분 그런 몰상식한 인간들 때문에
우리나라에 정나미 떨어졌을 법도 한데
어떻게 잘 정착하고 지내셔서 다행이네요.
프사가........ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
한국식 예의로 안할거면 그 나라 사람 예의로 하던가... 다짜고짜 너 You라고 하는 "외국인"이 어딨음 Mister라고 하던가 Mr.해밍턴 이라고 해야지. 샘이라고 이름으로만 부르는 것도 친해진 후에 하는거고, You라고 부르는건 상당히 권위적인 태도임. 우리나라도 똑같잖음. 꼭 못 배운 사람들이 자기 무례를 Cool이라는걸 들이밀면서 덮으려고 함. "야 (내가) 그럴 수도 있지", "뭐 그거가지고 삐지냐" 이런 애들
Matty Bruno Lucas Zenere Salas
The age that can drive is 18+ old (legal age)in Korea. This age is same with other countries.
We use two ages.
One is the thing Dave and Sam dealed in this video(used in common), and another one is a legal age.
@Matty Bruno Lucas Zenere Salas 웃긴게 법적인 효력이 적용되는건 전부 만나이로 표현합니다. 한국나이는 그냥 일상생활에서만 씁니다.
옛날에 공단에서 알바 한적 있는데 거기선 외국인 노동자들에게 나이고 뭐고 상관 없이 무조건 100% 반말이던데 ㅎㅎㅎ
심지어 호칭이 야, 너, 이런 말도 아니고 야임마, 이새끼야 ㅋㅋㅋ
외국인은 한국어의 반말 높임말 체계를 모를거라 봐서 그러는 걸까..
아니면 죄다 베트남, 필리핀, 캄보디아, 방글라데시같은 후진국 약소국에서 온 사람들이라 무시해서 그런 건지..
미국이나 유럽처럼 강대국이나 선진국 사람이 공장에 일하러오면 어떻게 말할까.. 물론 당연히 미국, 유럽에서 한국공장에 일하러 오는 사람이 없으니 잘은 모르겠지만
When they talking in English i still read they subs lol
The*
same 😅
It's a great habit. Like i want to read the korean subtitles to improve my korean but i also end up reading the english ones
Omg yes and when i realise i feel so dumb😂😂
Lmao same
“Gotta make sure I heard that right” lmfaooooo
진짜 같은 한국인인데 한국에서도 초면이면 존댓말 쓰는 게 맞는 데 나이부심 갖고 그러는 거 은근 있어요. (저는 초면에 만난 사람은 그 사람이 누구든 존댓말 써요.) 한국 나이... 한국 법적으로는 만 나이를 쓰는 데 관습적으로 한국 나이를 쓰는 편이죠... ㅠㅠ 저도 그거 은근 골치 아파해요.
I took Korean language classes during 4 years and they never told us informal speech. Which tend to be awkward with my Korean friend who is 10 years younger than me. He is like 'noona why are you so polite with me use banmal' and I'm like 'I cAnT'
MOOD even when im messaging someone who ive agreed to speak in banmal with i have to catch myself going back to jeondaemal sbffhdkfng
Me too, my teachers always taught me formal korean
I learned korean too but i was taught formal first and then informal as i advanced.. it was a part of the syllabus for me
I'm reading the Talk to me in Korean books and they introduce both 존댓말 and 반말 in the beginning of the first book, but they clarify that jondeamal ends with "yo" and "nida", and that you should be learning jondeamal first and only use banmal with close friends/family 🙂
Since I'm still learning the language I use jondeamal if I'm writing something in Korean to a Korean person I've just started chatting with, even if they're younger than me, I'll only try to not use jondeamal if they say I don't have to be so formal.
Still learning how to not use the "yo" and "nida" tho 😝
I honestly struggled to speak in 반말 for the first year of living in Korea, despite actually speaking Korean generally pretty well. I hate when other foreigners act like it's too hard to use 존댓말 because like...no??? At least add 요.
'빠른'년생은 앞의년도 애들이랑 같이 학교를 가기 때문에 학교에선 선배행세해도
사회나오면 '몇년생'이냐가 중요하지 '빠른'은 필요없어지더라구요. 괜히 족보만 꼬입니다.ㅠ-ㅠ
빠른 제도 사라진지가 언젠뎈ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
@@user-pn1fx9oz6i 2007년 사라져서 빠른폐지 된 애들은
사회에 이제 나오기 시작했죠.
학교에서 사라졌다고 사회에서 사라진거 아닙니다.
학번따지면 빠른월생 동갑애들이 선배노릇 하고 있어요.
전 3개월차이인데 언니라고 부르는 사람도 있네요.
제가 친구먹으면 그 쪽 그룹지인들 전부 족보 꼬이니까요.
96년 태어난 빠른생인데 어머니가 일부러 동갑이랑 같이 입학시켰어요. 사회에서 95년 만나서 서로 말 놓자고 합의하면 친구들인 96년들은 뻘쭘... 그리고 빠른 97들은 96이랑 말놓으면 내가 뻘쭘...
저는 99년 2월생임에도 엄마가 99년생이랑같이 학교를 보냈는데 문제는 저보다 늦게태어났는데 빠른99인 경우에 형대접해야할지 친구먹어야할지 진짜 난감하거든요... 만나이쓰면 상관없는데 한국에서만 쓰는 세는나이때문에 이게 무슨... ㅠ 이런것때문인지 빠른년생은 2003년생부터 폐지됬어요
저 99인데 밀레니엄 베이비애들이랑 같이 수업들었던 1인입니다. 빠른 00실제로 제가 학교다닐때 많이 봤어요.
Dave ready to fight some kids 😂
Boomer behavior, he's becoming old
I guess the reason why you guys feel offended when a younger korean speaks informally in korean to you but you're okay with that in english is because language shapes the way we think. And culture is so closely linked to language🤷
THIS DESERVE TO BE PINNED.
sims city I was in the US and met a younger Korean American who immediately spoke informal to me in Korean. I was so pissed. It is like when millennials don’t give up their seat on the subway making pretend they don’t see older people looking at their damn cell phones.
@@hanabanana3365 right?! I saw this title on a ted talk's vid about this topic. I haven't watched the vid, but the title alone makes a lot of sense to me, like I think this way since then
@@christinedowd1820 yeah, like I had a friend from germany who's 10+ years older than me and we spoke casually to each other. But, being asian myself, I couldn't get used to being addressed informally by my junior in uni for a while. But the senior/junior hierarchy in my country isn't as strict as in korea imo
외국인이니까 이래도 된다 저래도 된다?
뇌가 없는건가?
우리나라에 살고있는 '사람'이다!
예의좀 지키자!
thank you
♡
그니까요 저도 한국인이지만 저 말 듣고 완전 충격받았어요,,,,외국인이라고 사람이 아닌 것도 아닌데 왜 존중을 안해주는 걸까요? 외국인이라도 한국인 대하듯이, 똑같이, 존중해줬으면 좋겠어요
샘형 살 많이 빠진거 같다
-좋아요 이만큼 받은건 또 첨이네-
This is so relatable, I feel like Koreans sometimes underestimate foreigners living there and just started talking to us informally and it does a lot of times feel like theyre being disrespectful. And I agree with Sam, I still find korean age system to be so confusing and complicated x_x
외국인에게 반말하는걸 너무 많이 봐서, 정작 외국인들은 기분나빠하지 않을까 싶었는데, 역시 사람은 동양이나 서양이나 다 똑같네요. 결국 존대 자체가 문제가 아니라, 사회적으로 동등한 대우와 존중이 중요한것 같네요. 궁금한것 해결해서 좋았어요!
현재 일본거주 8년차입니다. 같은 아시아사람이더라도 외국인이라는 이유로 한참어린사람에게 반말로 듣게되면 매우 기분나쁜데 심지어 양국 모두 존댓말, 반말이 공존하는데도 반말을 하는 경우가 너무 많았어요. 지금도 많이 있고요. 여러분들도 외국인보면 친해지고 싶은 마음은 알겠지만 너무 외국인인식을 가지고 다가가기보단 같은 형제로서 다가가는게 그 사람에게 배려해주는 것이라고 생각합니다.
off topic but, Sam looks great!
마지막에 나왔던 빠른년생이 생긴건 바로 나이 시스템과 학제 시스템의 불일치 때문이에요.
제가 학교를 입학해서 다닐 때까지만 했어도 1,2월 생들은 개학이 3월에 한다는 이유로 그 전해에 태어난 사람들과 같은 학년으로 묶여졌죠.
즉, 데이브씨 처럼 89년 1월이나 2월에 태어나면 88년 생과 같은 학년으로 묶이고,
89년에 태어나더라도 3월 이후에 태어나면 89년 부터 90년 2월 생까지 같은 학년으로 묶어서 이러한 문제가 생기게 되었죠.
(이게 사회에서도 문제가 되니까 제가알기로는 08년도부터 09년도 초등학교 입학생부터 1월생부터 12월생까지 입학하는 걸로 바꾼걸로 알고 있어요)
저도 91년 1월 생이라 학교에 입학하라는 서류를 받고 입학을 했는데 90년 생들과 같은 학년으로 초, 중, 고를 나오게 되었죠.
근데 이게 사회 나와서 대학교 와서 크게 문제가 되더라구요. 저는 크게 신경을 안썼는데 말이죠.
특히나 제가 처한 상황은 양쪽에서 잡아당겨 찢기는 상황이었어요.
저랑 같은 학년으로 12년을 지내온 애들한테는 너 왜 한 살 어려지려고 하냐라는 말을 듣고
대학교 1년 후배한테는 너 같은 91인데 내가 너한테 왜 형, 오빠라고 불러야되냐는 말을 들었죠.
빠른 년생도 결국 정부에서 정한 학제 시스템의 피해자인데 이렇게 양쪽에서 잡아당기는게 너무 힘들더라구요.
타국들 똑같은 문화가 아니잖아요...영어를 못 하는 외국인도 있고 높임말이 있는 언어가 있잖아요.... 제가 영어 잘 못하는 외국인이고 제 언어는 그런 높임말이 있는 언어 중 하나이기 때문에, 제가 모르는 사람을 만날 때, 그리고 친하지 않을 때, 제 나라에서도 사람들이 서로 얘기할 때 처음엔 높임말부터 시작해야 해요..... 한국에서 마찬가지로...외국인이니까 저에게 반말로 얘기해야 해요?? 이런 사건이 몇 개가 있어서 그때 정말 슬펐어요....
그러게요. 당연한거라고 생각하고 있는데, 영상보니까 "비정상"적인 사람도 많아서 좀 놀랐네요
예의없고 생각없는 사람 많죠.. 그리고 외국인이라고 다 영어하는게 아니고 다 문화도 다르고 쓰는말도 다르고 외국인이라고 예의없이 아무한테나 막대하는거 아닌데 초면에 영어하거나 반말하고 엉겨붙는걸 쿨하다고 생각하는 사람도 있어요.. 한국사람들이 외국인 대해본적 없는사람 너무 많아서 존중을 어떻게 해야하는지 모르는거같아요
In France, we have a formal system : "le vouvoiement". We use for the people we have to respect and we don't know well. If an unknown person speaks to me in the street with informal language, it's weird. So i can unterstand the japonese and korean linguistic system. But in France, it isn't with age. If we are close friend or family, we speak with informal system. It's more if i know or don't know this person. Exept with my husband's parents, i'm close but i speak to them with "vouvoiement" for the respect. But now, with 6 years of marriage, I want to try to speak to them in informal language because we are a family. But it's hard to change a habit, it's sounds weird when I say "tu" instead of "vous".
Japanese isn't with age either. its kinda like the Latin romance languages. but the Japanese take it step further with add 3 more levels, based on other criteria. but age isnt really one of them..
I was thinking the exact same thing. The fact that many things change in the language depending of if you use "vouvoiement" or "tutoiement".
Not a huge deal but it's interesting how you capitalized France but used lower case for Japanese and Korean. Kinda caught my attention since we're discussing formalities and all.
@@jwo122 It's a common mistake/habit for native french speakers, due to the fact that only proper names are capitalized in french. Could be perceived as belittling to some, like in Valérie's comment case, but i can assure you that their writing pattern follows the french rule that names take a capitalized letter (France) and adjectives don't (korean and japanese).
jw Maybe it's due to the french automatic correction ? I have the same problem. If I don't re-read it.
korea => Corée
japonese => Japonais
PS : Sorry for my english
Because Koreans are raised knowing this languagr hierarchy, for them to go out of their way to change their tone to a foreigner... just a piss take.
I'm still learning korean but even i am aware of the level of respect needed when meeting someone.
Yeah the two comments above yours are just like, "you've got to have a special mindset to speak informal to a foreigner you just met"
As a Korean I would like to point out that the levels of formality are a pain in the ass. I stick to two simple rules 1. no given names for those older or not friends and 2. yo at the end of sentences. If they are obviously younger or friends, informal it is.
also, regarding "in the west" - that's such a generalisation, i'm from europe and there are hierarchical differences in my mother language (and other european languages i've studied as foreign languages in school) and you would never use the informal to address a stranger. so conflating english-speaking countries/cultures with non-english-speaking ones doesn't really help their argument
I didn't even recognize Sam,he looks amazing! Bet he feels amazing too,losing all that weight,great job! Keep up the good work Dave,sending good vibes from Croatia
I've been learning Korean for about 8/9 months now and my teacher is *always* saying stuff like "oh this thing we just learned is only to use if you're close with someone" or "you absolutely have to speak to older people in this way as it's respectful" and then when I'm practicing Korean on HelloTalk or something I have people right off the bat speaking informally to me because I'm a foreigner or because we "don't have formal language in English", I can't help but feel disrespected, because I've been told so much "you have to speak in XYZ way to show respect to the other person" - it can be a little frustrating haha!
The thing is people use Korean differently on the Internet. On many sites or apps, it's not actually considered rude to use informal speech to strangers. So it might've been just the app you were using, not because you were a foreigner. Even on this video, you can see many Korean comments are in informal.
yup get them same thing with Japanese, its like you don't have it, now unless they are learning Spanish which has formal cases or Russian, then that is a different story. they will use what Japanese call keigo. though its the younger generation that does it, from what i have seen. if we are around the same age they use 1st level of politeness. but after a while the longer you know them they use plain form. though it is for other reasons. when i learned Korean though to me it look like the younger generation did it more often than the older.. which would confuse me.
Where I'm from, we have 2 different ways of saying "you", formal and informal.
Formal is mainly for strangers and older people, and informal mainly for friends and younger people.
I always make sure to start with formal, just to be respectful and on the safe side.
And THEN if they tell me "ah, just use informal. Makes me feel less old lol" or something, THEN I know I can use informal.
To use informal with someone right of the bat might give them a bad impression of you. Of course there are also people who don't care.
But the point is that, it isn't for me to decide if I want to use formal or informal with you, especially if I want to be respectful (and if they're older).
So I think that I would also feel put off if someone would use the same argument as in the video on me. Like, no, that's not for you to, just, decide, KID.
same
Immediately, if I were to speak with someone in Korean, I'd stick with formal too. Also, I feel like it shows the amount of effort you put in to genuinely learn the language.
오 그렇군요. 좋은 내용이었던 것 같네요. 감사합니다 데이브형님 ㅋㅋ
Hi Dave! This is one of the best "serious" contents you have. I just liked the way these things were discussed by two foreigners who has lived their lives in Korea for a long time. Cheers to more videos! 🤩🤩
ㅋㅋyes 로마에 가면 로마법을 따라야쥬. 내말이 그말인데 바로 쌤씨가 얘기했네요. 외국인이라도 한국에 있으면 오빠 맞지요. 정말....'외국인'이라고 선을 긋고 대하는게 느껴지는 것 같아서 I feel your frustration
반대로 저는 외국사는데 여기서 한국말 배우는 친구들이랑 만나면 저한테 자꾸 언니라고 불러서 좀 어색해요.
Love you Dave! ♡ have an amazing day/night/life
ok my uh panic mode has been activated-
i will now be redoing my formal lessons
also, you should do a short korean guide for foreigners :)
usually for studying learn the levels of politeness at least age one, the others get more complicated. just like Japanese.
I think even Koreans understand that the levels of formalities in the korean language is difficult for foreigners to learn so don't worry if you still don't completely get it.
Having levels of respect is in a characteristic of Korean culture and therefore, it's ingrained in Korean language as well. Why should foreigners be excluded from it just because we are foreigners? It should apply to anyone who's speaking, listening or simply being talked about in the language right? Languages like English may not specifically require you to use formal words, sentences or conjugations to make it formal but we still talk in a respectful way to people that needs to be respected.
Hacky i agree!
Yep, language and its cultural norms should apply to everyone who is speaking, including age hierarchy for both Koreans and foreigners.
Oh Wow. Sam looks waay more younger👏
Thank you for showimg both Kor and eng subs at the same time. It's best for learning and not enough channels do it. I'm subscribing just for that and I love that you go back and forth speaking both languages.
Wow, you both look great, especially Sam! Keep up the workouts, Dave! 고마워요!
So interesting! I love the podcast and this video was great as well. You guys are my favorites from Korea! Thank you for indulging us in the korean culture 😁💕
데이브님 샘님 쵴오 👍 맞아요 예의없는 인간들 진짜 싫어요 !!
대화 주제가 좋아요 ^^
재밌는 주제네요!
샘 아조씨 말에 격렬하게 동의하는 데이브님 넘 커엽네옄ㅋㅋㅋ
I’ve never been this early for a new Dave video ㅋㅋ
Man, I'm so glad you made this video.. Totally feel the same. It ANNOYS me when someone's not using formal speech!
오 정말 궁금했던건데!!
In Spanish you also have respectful/formal speaking and informal speaking. Depending on the country, one will be more used than the other. When I came to the US it felt so weird saying "you" to people I just met, specifically older people, so in my mind I was saying "usted" instead of "tú" everytime I said "you".
Oh my god yess. I was born and raised in Cali, but I hate it when people speak to a stranger and older people with "tú ", its "usted". Especially of someone comes up to my mom, even if they're the same age, and uses "tú" I get so offended. 😤
데이브가 전에도 이런 주제를 영상으로 만든적 있었죠? 그때는 그냥 외국인끼리는 친구 이러면서 마무리 했던것 같아요.
근데 지금 이런현상이 생기는 이유는 간단합니다.
1. 외국인들이 한국에 살면서 한국말을 배우고 존댓말 쓰는 걸 그대로 따랐으면 되는 건데 그러질 않았어요
데이브 보다 한국에 먼저 온 외국인들은 '존댓말 쓰는 게 이상하다. 왜 써야 하냐 그냥 이름으로 불러라' 이랬습니다. 실제로 이런외국인들도 많았고요.
그러다 보니 한국 사람들도 '아 존댓말을 쓰라고 강요하는 건 외국인들 한테 실례구나' 이런 사고방식이 자리 잡은 거죠.
2. 일관성 없는 행동.
외국인들 끼리 반말, 외국인이 한국 사람한테 존댓말
국제결혼 가정 자녀가 한국 사람한테는 존댓말, 외국사람한테는 반말.
외국사람들 찬/반 : 한국에 사는 이상 외국인이라도 서로 존댓말을 써야한다. 아니다 우리끼리는 반말을 써야 한다.
한국 사람한테나 외국사람한테 그냥 반말로 해야한다. 존댓말을 쓸필요가 없다. => 의견이 갈립니다. 그리고 하는 행동도 다 다르죠.
이런 현상이 한국사람들을 혼란스럽게 만듭니다.
외국인들도 한국에 사는 이상 한국 말을 배우고 그 규칙을 잘 따랐으면 하는 바람입니다.
데이브님 영상은 약간 궁금한거 잘 올려주시네
Thank you Dave and Sam for going over this. I’ll surely keep these ideas in mind for when I plan to go visit Korea. It sucks how foreigners get treated that way and hopefully this video opens native Korean’s eyes to this discomfort. It’s not cool being disrespected in any language.
This is so meanigfull and interesting talk!!!! Even kinda educational~
좋은거 배워갑니다
Love these type of videos! More rants/raves with Sam lol
This is new refreshing content dude u the man
Sam님 영어 이렇게 믾이 하는거 처음 같아 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ I love Australian accent!
오늘 주제 정말 흥미로웠어요 저도 참고로 빠른년생이라서 누가 제 나이를 물어보면 뭐라고 대답해야할지 당황할때가 많아요ㅠㅠ.. 정말 많이 공감하고갑니다 영상 잘보고가요!
whoaaa sam 🥺 you really worked on yourself 👏🏻 respect man!
언어와 문화의 신묘함이란 ㅎㅎ
데이브가 말한 그 반말한 어린여자는 진짜 생각이없네요🤔 그리고 데이브님이 원식이형한테 반말할때의 상황도 무릎을 탁치게되는 상황이네요😮 영상보면서 궁금해진게 두분다 모국어가 영어권인데
평소라면 서로영어로 존칭어없이 얘기할분들이 데이브님이 갑자기 한국어로 "야 샘 이따 뭐먹을래??" 이러면 샘님 반응이 어떨지 궁금하네요 ㅋㅋ
갑자기 사고회로 정지가 오실지
야 데이브 형한테 반말하냐? 바로 한국인처럼 이러실지ㅋㅋㅋ
sam is looking great!!!
Sam’s looking good!
진짜 제가 하고싶은 말을 두분이서 다하시네요 참 많이 공감됨니다.
저도 빠른년생인데 친구들한테는 족보 브레이커라고 욕먹었지요
아니, 동창생도 아니고 사회에서 만났고
같은해에 태어났는데 형,동생 하라고?
게다가 친구랑 그사람이랑 아무런 접점도 없는데 왜 내가 욕먹고 족보꼬인다는 소리 들어야하는지!
진짜로 학교동창아니고 사회에서 만났다면
빠른 안따졌으면 좋겠네요
Great video! Also Congrats Sam on the weight loss!!!
When you’re speaking Korean, the culture is included (I’m kyopo btw). Why would you suddenly ignore that culture just because someone is a foreigner? If you’re speaking Korean and using jondenmal is a form of respect to people older than you in that culture, why would you not speak to foreigners with that same respect.
Even if some foreigners do not care if you use banmal, that’s something you should ask and receive their consent for. Just like when you’re talking to a Korean and when you get closer ask if you can malkka (use banmal instead). It’s not something that should be assumed.
Totally agree with age confusion question.
U guys should really really check out their podcast. It’s amazing.
헐 샘형 영어 공부 열심히 했네~ 영어 잘하심
그나마 빠른년생이 폐지되서 그랬지 빠른년생 폐지안됬으면 더더욱 복잡했다
2002년 이전에 태어난 사람 중에서 1, 2월에 태어나 초등학교 입학 시기가 애매한 경우 동급생들보다 1년 빠르게 학교에 입학한 사람들을 가리키는 말이다.
I completely agree with you guys. It's really hard to put into words and it's really much deeper than just feeling left out because you're a foreigner. Languages have evolved based on cultural aspects which affects how we perceive a language. We attach ideas and especially emotions to a language. You can't really separate these aspects without a language sounding/feeling unnatural or rude. I speak Spanish and English fluently and I'm still learning Korean. There are just things I would never say in one language that might be perfectly normal to say in another. It's just the way it is.
sam and dave transitioning between korean and english is so relatable
그래. 그래도 그 "형" 이나 "동생" 이 주는 어감이 가지는 정겨운 이미지도 있음.
꼭 형동생이란 칭호가 나쁜것만은 아님.
LOL did Misook or one of the cats walk in at 1:00 ? Dave can you confirm 😂😂
"You just stripped everything away from what I've worked towards." - THANK YOU!!
Oh shit there's a podcast hell yeah! Gonna bing it at work next week
This is so true. I learned for a long time korean and the culture. So when i speak to someone in formal korean and they speak to me speak straight informal... i just wanna give up. Like if i try to respect you, why you belittle me??
Its so interesting to see how annoyed Dave was because that girl wouldn't extend the same level of respect to him as she did to the other mutual friends. I guess when you live somewhere for so long and have assimilated into their culture, you expect others to stop looking at you as an outsider. If I were in his place, I would be annoyed not only because we were in Korea but also because in my culture we have similar values when it comes to communication with those older than you (definitely not as strict as Koreans though, there's still room for flexibility). In my country we use both English and my mother tongue simultaneously (Hindi), so I can get away with not using the correct terms sometimes lol.
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame imo. It seems as though if you aren't born in Korea to Korean parents, you will always be seen as a foreigner, even though you might be a citizen and lived there for most of your life. I could be wrong though, it's just a feeling I get, I don't have experience. This will probably change eventually, but I imagine it will take place over generations as the world becomes more multi-cultural.
I get it 😂😂 there are some things I say in English to my dad that I wouldn’t be able to say in Korean. In Dave’s case, I think it’s because language implies (at least in Korea) the level of respect, and automatically choosing informal language feels disrespectful. Especially because he lives there now!
@@AlistairAbroad already happening in certain parts of Asia, sadly it is a bit of shame.
I think what's really triggering is what she said after Dave pointed it out to her. That's just plain disrespectful.
@@koushinproductions Agreed!
좀 빨리왔다!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes Sam looks great! Dave you look great too (I don’t want you to feel left out 😅)
Sam is totally right. I never understand how William can be 5 ? He is only 3 years old baby. It is totally confusing. If you have birthday in summer, your age is 2 years older suddenly. All of the world use international age system except Korea. When Koreans did disrespectful behaviors, it hurts foreigners. Please be equal to every people.
사람에 따라 다르다고 생각합니다. 나이차가도 친구가 될 수 있고, 많은 친구가있는 것은 좋은 일이라고 생각합니다.
둘 다 영어권에서 왔는데도 샘 씨는 영어로 얘기할 때는 복성(abdominal sound), 한국어는 후성(throat sound)으로 나눠서 소리 내는데 (한국어 쓸때가 목소리 톤이 더 높아요!) 데이브씨는 두 언어 모두 한국어식으로 후성을 주로 쓰면서 영어 한국어 같은 높낮이가 되는게 신기해요.
저도 맨날 이 생각 해요!!데이브님 너무 한국화 패치가 잘 되서 영어 쓸때 발성이 한국어식이 되어 버림..ㅋㅋㅋ
@@sky-blue808 근데 생각해보니 데이브씨는 라틴아메리카계 가족이라 부모님 발성에 영향을 받았을 수도 있겠네요
엄청 공감!! 한국식 나이 계산하는거 좀 고쳐졌으면 좋겠어용~
I think this is one of the most interesting videos on your channel. I think it’d be incredibly rude to right off the bat speak to someone in 반말, foreigner or not. I’d be really upset if I were to experience this. I agree with Sam that there should be some middle ground. Not gonna lie, when Dave imitated what that one girl said I was trigggerrrred.
와 편집자님 누군지는 모르지만 페르소나5 좋아하시나봐요 배경음이 페르소나5인거같아요ㅋㅋㅋ
OMG mind-blown with Sam's weight loss 🤯😲 props to you bruv!! 👏
I really understand what Sam is saying about the developmental differences with Korean age vs what the actual age is. I currently teach in Korea and my students are 6 years old Korean age. When I first started teaching them I couldn't figure out why the behavior and development was SO different. Then I found out my youngest student was born December 31. There are 3 other students who were born in December too. The developmental gap is so big between those younger ones and the other ones.
It's kind of weird that some people specifically don't use formal for foreigners. I'm from the Netherlands, and even though it's by no means to the same degree as in Korea, we also have a formal way to address someone. There's "je" for the informal "you" and "u" for formal. "U" is generally used for people that are older than you, and my parents have always stressed for me to be formal since it's respectful. When you get to know someone really well, they might tell you to use informal. Now, pre-covid I was an intern at a firm and their company policy for all employees is not to use the formal form. That was SO difficult for me. Because I didn't know anyone very well, and they we're all quite a bit older than me, so even though they told me not to be formal I felt like such a rascal addressing them informally. Like my body was physically struggling to say it, because I felt I was disrespecting them. So to me that person not addressing you formally because you are a foreigner really shows an utter lack of respect for foreigners in particular on their part.
I'm Korean/ American and I'm also suffering with the same problem, Thanks for referring it!
As a same context, it is really awkward to call "You" to who is older than me in English cuz I'm Korean. It feels impolite to me. And also, we never use last name only but in western, they do. So I always confused which one was polite to say. It just so different.
In the western world, just drop the first name. Ex: Hello, Mr. Smith and NOT, hello, Mr. John Smith. If by mistake, you include the first name, it would not be seen as impolite.
so in English there are ways to make the sentence less formal. but not at the level how it is with Korean. unless we bring thou and thee. but those are obsolete words
@@jame254 True, true.
Matty Bruno Lucas Zenere Salas
basically the discussion was about the need to not automatically talk informally in Korean if the other person is a foreignor.
Korean has clear formal and informal language. They are used depending on who you’re talking to. You would talk formally to anyone who is your senior(especially age) and informally to anyone younger than you.
A direct ‘you’ in korean is informal language. You’d never refer to anyone older than you by the word ‘you’. Using it to someone who is your senior is just really rude.
It’s the same thing as in english when you meet your friend’s parents. You’d never call your friend’s parents by their first name.
@@jame254 just to add on, (since I don't imagine everyone knows this) the "thou/thee" forms were once English's informal pronouns, with "you" serving as the formal. Now that it's archaic, it /sounds/ formal, but it was used in the opposite manner.
I'm so used to watching your videos in korean that even when you're speaking english my eyes drift towards the subtitles lol
This is so insightful, in spanish we have a way in treating others that are older with respect.. all depends on how your parents raised you...
Same in Portuguese.
나는 지금 나이세는거 좋은데..ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 다같이 1살먹는거 재밌고 좋음. 약간 헷갈리는것두 있기야 하겠지만 한국에서는 한국나이로 하구 외국에서는 외국나이로 하면 되징
만나이도 딱히 헷갈리는것 같지도 않은데ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 걍 생일안지나면 2살차이고 생일지나면1살차이인것 뿐이잖어
빠른은 조금 헷갈려두 뭐 외국도 학교진학같은거 하게되면 이런 문제 있지 않나? 우리나라도 빠른같은건 교육이라던지 학교진학할때 문제가 되는거지, 일상생활에서는 딱히...
나이로 존중하는것두 우리나라문화고, 오히려 외국나이로 하게되면 더 헷갈릴것 같은데.. 어제 친구였던 애가 내일은 언니/오빠가 되는거잖아ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 뭐 친구끼리는 신경 안쓰겠지만 처음만난사람들과는 좀 헷갈리는 문제도 있고 사회적으로도 좀 혼란스러울듯..
I liked this video so much😂😂
Straight off the bat, my thought is that its the language that matters, not the country
If a Korean spoke to you in English, then informal is fine (since formal is only used in business/professional settings)
but if they spoke in Korean, it should be formal (because its inbuilt IN the language itself - formal is respectful, informal on the first meeting is extremely rude)
I'm so so agree with what Sam said about Korean age.
Sam is so much slimmer now. 😍 so happy for him. 💕
I agree with Sam. It’s more on the location and language which is a huge part of a culture. For me, it’s just natural to have the age hierarchy in mind when I speak Korean to anyone who speaks the same.
I feel like this could be a good lesson video for your other channel to elaborate more on this subject. you could also explain on what to say and what not to say to people who really don't know and or still learning korean because probably people just like you feel the same way...
0:04 i love how he emphasized the names of “East sea” and “korean strait” (the east sea is “commonly” referred as the sea of japan🤮)
v interesting topic, i'd like to hear a linguist and cultural anthropologist weigh in on why that disequilibrium might exist!
첫째로 한국은 아이가 생기고 배에서 품고있는 시간도 '삶'이라고 생각해서 태어난 순간부터 1살이 되는거에요 ㅎㅎㅎ 그리고 한국에서도 3살전에는 생후 몇개월이라고 이야기해요 태어난지 2살이어도 그렇게 표현하진않구요 ㅎㅎㅎㅎ 생후 2일이 되는 거죠 ㅎㅎㅎ 그리고 두번째 빠른은 음력을 기준으로 하는 거에요 설날이 음력으로 1월1일 인건 아시죠? 띠가 음력1월1일 기준으로 바뀌는 거라서 같은 띠끼리 동갑으로 본거죠 ㅎㅎㅎ 이건 많이 헷갈리실것같아요 ㅎㅎ 한국에서는 띠가어떻게되? 하고 나이를 확인하기도 해요 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 좀 올드스타일 이긴 하지만요 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
품고있는 시간도 포함해서 한살이란말 너무 구차한거 같음ㅋㅋ 그럼 뭐 1월 1일에 태어나면 연말쯤 되면 두살되나?
맞네 언어에따라 문화도 같이 포함되니까 그렇게 해야하네
그리고 초면에는 존댓말을 사용해서 상대방을 존중해야하죠
한국언어에 호칭문화가 있어서 처음 만났을 때 이름보다 나이를 먼저 물어 보게 됩니다. 그래야 상대방(You)를 정확하게 부를 수 있고(예, 친구,오빠,누나, 등) 대화를 자연스럽게 이어갈 수 있게 되죠
와... 샘형 영어한다. 와.....
I can f relate to this s. I'm a foreigner in Italy and There is the same using of formal and informal in daily conversation. However, in the speaking language they don't care if you're foreigner or not, they use it in the correct way with all people. Another thing when I talk to my friends originally coming from the same country as I am, who are living in Italy for so many years as I am, we speak directly in Italian for most of the time, and not with our mother-tongue language, don't know why.. The argument is so interesting and fascinating as it is O.O.. Love & Peace.
haha I've been struggling with same issue and this video would make an easy explanation for them. god!!