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- 게시일 2021. 08. 22.
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Sir Gawain and the Green Knight has long been known for its homoerotic subtext. What is the history of that, and how does it relate to the mishandling of queerness in the new The Green Knight movie? Come learn with me!
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Sources:
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Anonymous
MASCULINITY AND CHIVALRY: THE TENUOUS RELATIONSHIP OF THE SACRED AND SECULAR IN MEDIEVAL ARTHURIAN LITERATURE by KACI MCCOURT
The invention of sodomy in Christian theology by Mark D. Jordan
Sir Lancelot Of The Lake: A French Prose Romance Of The Thirteenth Century
Anna Klosowska Roberts, Queer Love in the Middle Ages
Knight : the warrior and world of chivalry by Jones, Robert W
The Green Knight’s Ending, Explained by Joanna Robinson www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...
ON LESBIAN AND GAY/QUEER MEDIEVAL STUDIES by DAVID LORENZO BOYD
Sir Gawain’s Penitential Development from Attrition to Contrition by patrick outhwaite
Gay Knights and Gay Rights: Same-Sex Desire in Late Medieval Europe and its Presence in Arthurian Literature by Dorien Zwart
'A Mayde, and Last of Youre Blood': Galahad's Asexuality and its Significance in "Le Morte D'arthur" by MEGAN ARKENBERG
A Kiss Is Just a Kiss: Heterosexuality and Its Consolations in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Carolyn Dinshaw
Knight in Tarnished Armour: The Meaning of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" by Gordon M. Shedd
Medieval Misogyny and Gawain's Outburst against Women in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" by Gerald Morgan
Genesis and Gender in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" by Catherine S. Cox
Sodomy, Misogyny, and Displacement: Occluding Queer Desire in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" by DAVID L. BOYD
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You have read "Deor"?
Sounds to me like the green knight and his wife were all 'We saw you from across the bar and really love your vibe'
Unicorn hunters
Ohh mann
Same lmao
the movie: Duty. Honor. Courage.
the poem: 😳😳 what if we kissed 😳😳 at the castle by the green chapel 😳😳 and we're both dudes 😳😳 (but one' a closeted tree or something idk)
so quirky and funny ahahahaha lolololol
@@mor4439 wow you're so quirky
kissing hasn't been sexualised for all of history and in every part of the world as much as it clearly has been in your culture.
True 😭
@@helvete_ingres4717 true. In my province, tv hosts would often kiss their guests on the mouth when greeting them up until like the 70s. We have a show replaying old clips from back then and it’s super creepy to us, but being the third lady to kiss your fave on national tv before turning a lucky wheel for a big price was just a common occurence at the time.
Lord and Lady Bertelak read like a couple who want to bring in a third person to “spice things up.”
Yeah, they have THE VIBES.
“Sir Gawain and the Green Unicorn”? 🤔🤭
They’re Pegasi hunters, for sure, and Gawain is their Pegasus. It is known.
LMAOOO I WAS JOKING ABOUT THIS WITH MY FRIENDS WHEN I SAW IT
I felt really uncomfy watching that whole sequence, because they seemed so predatory to me. Like Gawain was being hunted, not hosted.
“And yes, this armour is really fucking hot…..”
Me, stupid and gay: yes it is
“….so I will not be wearing it for the whole video”
Me:…….oh. OH.
I just said to myself how hot that armor looks right before that, lol
Me: "Damn, that confidence is hot too."
same
SAME LOL
Different kind of gay but SAME
“An outrageously sexy knight all clad in green busts through the door with his horse” is a phrase I now need on a t-shirt
Forget the shirt! I strive to live by this phrase!
Only if it's a suitably green T-shirt.
There are two kinds of queer representation:
1) this is representation of queer people, *because the character(s) are explicitly queer*
2) this is representation of queer people, *because queer people feel represented by it*
These two types should not be confused with each other, nor should the latter one be disregarded.
Sir Gawain is quite obviously a poem of the second category. Unless the Gawain Poet had found a way to project his homosexual desires upon the world, which I find unlikely. Nevertheless, it is an acceptable interpretation, unless....you criticize it for removing the supposed representation, AND the the work is not a straight retelling, no pun intended, but an adaptation. In the original, Gawain passes all the knightly tests, including the possibly gay stuff, and flunks the exam. In the movie, Gawain flunks all the tests, including the possibly gay stuff, and passes the exam. It's a subversion.
Also, I think if the movie had focussed on the 'gay stuff' more, it would have kept viewers wondering wtf they just saw, as this is not the 13th Century, and not focussed on the scenes at the Chapel, which is what David Lowery wants us to focus on, and the whole point of the film. If at the end, you are still wondering what the kisses were about, and why the Green Knight is actually the Lord in disguise, then the movie hasn't done its job.
The movie, as it was told, was a much more effective retelling than it would have been had it kept all the gay stuff in it. IMO, of course.
Thinks of Supernatural creating the perfect Disaster-Bi Male Representation (Dean) by mistake. Lol.
There is NOTHING "queer" in the poem AT ALL. Only someone ignorant of the culture of the author at that time and place, and erroneously looking reading with their own modern eyes and bias could think so...making it a reflection of the reader instead of what the author intended.
@@eddesa5134 see item 2. my point isn't that this narrative is queer, it's that queer people are drawn to this narrative, and therefore it can be called representation. that's all. i didn't say anything about how it was intended or would have been read at the time. death of the author, ya know?
@@d.lan3y That's such a daft comment. It's like a person claiming that wheat farms are representative of alcoholics because some misguided alcohols "feel" that all the wheat is going to be brewed into beer! Even if the farmer tells you the fact all his wheat is being sold to be ground into flour used to make bread someone still argues no the farm its about alcoholics because some alcoholics "feel" its their representation. Can you see how daft that line of argumentation is, ya know?
There is NOTHING in that poem written by a Catholic Monk or Lord to be read by Catholics to promote Catholic values of honesty, humility, virginity, purity, respect for marriage, courage, keeping ones word/promises that is homoerotic. The French, Spanish and Italians had better be careful not to greet any homosexuals who think this film is representative of them as they will be making MeToo style claims of sexual harassment with greetings in those countries are as ordinary as handshakes to Americans!
Medieval bigots were like "Why are you, as a man, sleeping in?"
Does he.... y'know... sleep in?
No, they would be, 'why are you as an adult man sleeping in.' Those who had not reached majority had no need to live up to masculine ideals. This is why Gawain is allowed such leeway because it also reads as youth.
Fellas, is it gay to get enough sleep?
this is it! the funniest reply to this video 😂😭
@@margaretcummings4146 yes, because you like sleeping and the same gender also like sleep which means youre gay
Extant text: He slept, gaily, like virgin
Film text: He slept, stoically, like a chad
Catch me sleeping like the gay virgin I am
cw: SA mention
Watching this video reminded me of something I felt when watching the film. the way the director filmed the scene with Sir Gawain and Lady Bertelak REALLY put me off, with the girdle. I feel like, besides contextual sodomy, that the consent between those two was also very blurred. It felt a lot like Sir Gawain was coerced into giving his consent, since he repeated multiple times that he did not want to do this, and he wanted to uphold his honour, but she just kinda kept going? The audience reaction to that scene in theatres also really disturbed me, because people were laughing when it was finished. And I noticed online that I didn't see many similar opinions that Sir Gawain had been sexually assaulted, some people even saying the scene was lowkey hot. I was wondering if anyone else felt how I did?
I completely agree. And the way she shamed him afterwards too. 😬 I was very uncomfortable in the theater at that part.
I felt that way to in the theater I closed my eyes she kept grabbing him and I felt like he was uncomfortable and on the fence about it
I just watched the movie the other day and YES! That scene was so uncomfortable he was 100% coerced
Saw the movie yesterday. I don't know how anyone kind find that scene 'sexy'. The scene is specifically done in creepy way from the score to Sir Gawain begging her not to have sex with her. I think what people where laughing at was probably 'cum rag' bit at the end. Its usual to see the consequence of sex in film (probably because its quite ew) . So people where probably taken aback and unsure how to react and probably thought it was supposed to funny.
Yes definitely, it made me super uncomfortable
The Hetero/Homosexual oppositional forces still exist today in the form of “Dad’s who are unhealthily obsessed with their daughter’s virginity” memes that threaten their possible boyfriends with “Whatever you do to her, I’ll do to you”
wtf 😭 even tho that's like super wrong... I wouldn't mind that 😏
LOL I'd read that manga
That sounds less like a hetero/homosexual conflict and a more like a possession/incestual thing.
Can’t tell whether that’s a threat of sexual assault, or a warning not to commit abuse that accidentally sounds exactly like a threat of sexual assault
@@voidify3 It's generally a warning that they consider their daughter to be their property so any attempts to interact with her at all will be met with violence, #nohomo
These dudes do not care about physical abuse except in the sense of "you touched MY property??? Only I'M allowed to beat my family!!!"
My interpretation of the story was that the Green Knight, through Fae magic, was both Bertilak and Bertilak’s wife, so the Green Knight both kissed Gawain as the lady and received kisses as the lord. Like, it’s illusion magic, a duplication spell, it’s wild Fae magic it has very few rules.
Love where your head's at. I haven't even seen this movie yet but now I want to.
@@throughthedin I haven’t seen the film either, I was talking solely about the original story
@@v.v365 was fae magic mentioned in the poem?? I don't remember that
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet well the Green Knight is usually thought to be a folklore figure called the Green Man, he’s thought to be one of the fae
See I thought the blind woman was the mother and the wife may never had existed it was an implant by the mother to observe her son through these dolls while the lord was the green night and real.
I actually viewed it as Gawain being taken aback and not disgusted, but I definitely agree that I wish that aspect of the film was kept more true to the text
Well I felt that because the man and woman are supposed to be so mirrored that the reaction was not equal. Especially considering "what she did for him" being close to some kind of sexual assault even if he longed for that kind of contact with her. So when he responded with such a different tone to the man I was suprised. Maybe it is just how gentle and playful this "game" is still met with this kind of rejection and anger when in the source materal it remains playful. It feels like some kind of fear or spite added in by a hetarosexual mindset. Not that there is anything wrong with a hetarosexual man making movies that reflext his hetarosexual feelings and confusions. Particularly the fears around submitting to other men in any way sexual or not (his rejection and confusion at his offerings and help) and also the fears around the results of hetarosexual sex and its social meanings. The rant about green and birth and the dream/future sequence where he has the child with his love but because of hetarosexualitys role in society abandons her for a princess of another kingdom. This retelling is very much about biopower and biological conection, as aurthor says at the start that he feels more conected to him beucase he was birthed by his sister.
Sorry if you have to read a little around the errors, I am a little sick tonight and dyslexic enough already. I hope this does not come off as arugmentative but conversational. I may return to the comment to edit it a bit but these are just some of my thoughts.
@@k8g8s8 don't worry, I understand what you mean! I thought the vision he had of his future life was to show how hollow and loveless it would have been if he returned having bested the green knight, and he realized that he could only run so far from his true fate... which I also thought was fitting with a queer lens. But, when I think back on the original text, I don't know that to be the intention of the writers and directors of the film.
Yeah he is taken aback because The Lord takes what Gawain taken from the house, a kiss from the lady. It shows Lord knows what he did.
I agree. I thought the kiss itself didn’t look very forced, but what the kiss meant was what freaked Gawain out. That the lord knew what Gawain had done while in his home.
very late but i just saw the movie and i thought so too. i just saw it as him being spooked by the fact that the lord knew what he'd been up to, not disgusted by the kiss at all
I always remember the saying "The Vikings Made Steel, and Sappho Was a Lesbian". In that, just cause they didn't have the words for it at that time, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I love this!
I’ve seen the movie twice and i didn’t think at all that Gawain was upset by the kiss. He leaned into it, but I feel like he had just had a lot of crazy shit happen to him in the house and he was rushing off anyways lol.
The entire movie he was a coward, and being faced with any sort of tenderness and kindness from his mother, King Arthur, his girlfriend, anyone he was uncomfortable and couldn’t be honest with them. He couldn’t tell his own girlfriend(?) he loved her.
I feel like it added to this specific characterization of Gawain and why his mother was putting him on this journey to teach him a lesson and push him to be a better person.
Yeah I don't really understand why everyone gets hung up on the kiss when he's running away from being sexually assaulted
He accepted the kiss as a representation of getting off with the lady, but he got uncomfortable by the lords attempt o eek out what else he was owed, specifically the sash.
I mean, he refuses the hot woman seducing him every night because he is 'honest'... but he lies about the random green bag and is eager to kiss the hot man... come on XD
"Thank you, ma'am, but I'm not interested in hot stuff with you ... I'll take that kiss, though, to return it to your husband later..."
Your armor is everything.
Yes
and that tapestry is insane
Honestly The Green Knight is just a bunch of people caressing Dev Patel's gorgeous face for 2 hours and 5 minutes and personally that's all I really need in a movie
The poem is about courage as well as honesty though, Gawain wanted to keep the girdle because he was afraid for his life and thought the girdle could save him. Honesty and courage are both chivalric virtues.
Did you actually watch the video or
I do not quite understand how this is meant as a reply to the video? the queer themes can exist and be important but still also contain this meaning. Especially with the medieval society as explained within the video. The kisses were also about chivalric virtues. He had to be honest about what he had taken, and he did not go further then the kiss. Thus his virtue was intact, staying true to his morals (or love at home) even if this couple was both beautiful and very giving to him. Him running away from the deal they made was perhaps foreshadowing for him running again from the green knight. Giving him a kiss and giving him the sash were both a part of the game that he had to honor because they are magical beings. When he was honest he would live.
Yes, but in making the movie solely about cowardice, the director leaves a great deal of dense and interesting context on the table.
Warning: Spoilers ahead.
Cowardice, in the context of Sir Gawain, is the counterpoint to his Virtue. His knighthood demands bravery, and yet his mortality demands caution. The point of the test is (from one reading at least) that he gets so caught up protecting his virtue by denying sexual advances that he leaves himself vulnerable to the dishonor of fearing for his own life over his chivalric duty.
In the film, Gawain's fear for his own life is established pretty much from the moment he chops off the Green Knight's head. This was certainly an opportunity to explore Courage as a driving theme, and it could have worked, except that the total inversion of the ending (he gives up the girdle, and therefore dies) leaves this exploration unsatisfying - the ending moral seems to be "Tell the truth and suffer the consequences of your action" without much of an exploration of why that's important.
We do get the hallucination of his future, but this serves more as a counter-point to Gawain's final act of courage. His vision is saying that he'll suffer the consequences anyway, just down the line a bit after his cowardly life has had a chance to hollow him out. It isn't an act of courage in the end, but the acceptance of the futility of cowardice. As with much of the story in the film, Gawain remains a passive subject of the events, even in his own act of courage.
And this almost works. That's the part I find most frustrating about the movie - it's as if the filmmaker almost had a workable inversion of the text, but fumbles the execution and ends up contradicting his own themes (possibly because it was more about subverting the text than critiquing it).
And unlike in the original tale, you can't say Gawain was conflicted or too focused on the sins of the flesh to avoid the sins of the heart. Movie Gawain's just a pretty worthless guy who desperately wants to be worthy, but ultimately can't be (seriously, his cowardice in meeting the Green Knight's ax stroke is so exaggerated that it started to get irritating - not because it was cowardice, but because he just kept flinching and asking the Knight to wait - it robs the scene of its dramatic tension).
And so his act of honesty in the end seems to be saying that the wages of virtue is death?
All in all a beautiful mess of a movie. Gorgeous, filled with visual and religious complexity, and utterly unsure of what its trying to be.
@@k8g8s8 I was just reacting to the part where Kaz says that the movie made it a story about courage while the poem was about honesty.
In the poem Gawain did his best to keep his promise to Bertilak but broke it in the end, because he would have had to give up the girdle he thought could save his life. Because his courage faltered, so did his honesty. It's like the idea that the chivalric virtues are a whole and that if one of them fails, the others fail as well.
None of which takes anything away from the queerness of the story of course.
@@k8g8s8 Thank you! The kisses were all about chivalric virtues and chivalric romance. When they decided to turn it into some weird non-con shit--they kinda threw it all away. Which is ironic considering one of the insanely hard to read headers said something about chivalric romance. I cant haha.
Honestly I came out of the theater feeling like the film had pretty anti sex angle in general, both homosexuality and heterosexuality. The scene with Gawain and Lady Bertilak is kind of gross and uncomfortable. The scenes with Gawain's girlfriend, a prostitute, show him treating her kinda poorly. Even later in his vision, the sexuality of it all is uncomfortable and dark. Oddly enough, even though the director was trying to portray Christianity as weak and even sick (he said as much with how sick Arthur and Guinevere are, the broken cross at the green chapel, the broken shield with Mary on it), it comes around to a weirdly confused Christian message. But in... the worst way.
It's weird because I interpreted gawain's kiss with bertilak as the only time in the movie he was truly turned on (during a sensual scene with a partner, anyway. he was super turned on by that green knight), and the disgust he showed was towards himself. The kiss made him confused about his sexuality and what that meant to his masculinity, especially after being humiliated over and over again throughout the movie until that point. The sex he'd been having with the prostitute was a way for him to prove his masculinity to himself and others; a performance. He'd never felt anything when he was with a woman, so he was extremely confused at the surge of attraction he felt with that kiss, then dismayed and disgusted when he felt like he'd been humiliated again (by "being made the woman").
@@boobysr that's a fair interpretation! I personally felt like it was a negative scene given how he runs away and that Bertilak kisses him not the other way around. Also given what I've read of the director's intentions, Gawain is attracted to and distracted by women, hence why the lady and the prostitute are the same actress. But the director's intentions only matter so much. It still comes off as overall ugly and uncomfortable to me personally because it was the only scene with Gawain and a man like it and it wasn't Gawain's choice.
@@boobysr This was my same take away as well
haven't seen the film yet but that summary gives me huge "atheist but raised catholic because THE GUILT NEVER LEAVES YOU" vibes for the director/screenwriter
this post was made by atheist but raised catholic because THE GUILT NEVER LEAVES YOU gang
Idk, I feel like the point of the movie was to make an unlikable and and by no means honorable character. He's always running from himself and from everyone, so I feel like is the same with his sexuality, he denies it or treats it poorly. It feels like it's meant to be a warning for everyone who denies him/herself.
I gotta be honest, I'm not a huge fan of this movie, but I still think that the character doing pretty questionable was intentional, and at the very least I think is interesting and it would be unfair to not pointing it out
Maybe I'm misremembering something but I believe that the lord kissing sir Gawain was the only on screen kiss we see in the movie, I feel like it gave the kiss more impact. I didn't read the kiss as being one sided either, I do in fact remember Gawain closing his eyes and standing there while the older man caressed his face until he stops him and tells him they have to part ways. Overall surely not gay enough, but I'm writing this one off for us bis.
Can confirm that the Catholic church considers sex that does not end in "the opportunity for life" is a sin. That included the pullout method
can someone make catholic merch of a creampie tag
As a Medievalist, I was expecting there to be changes in the story (I'm really happy that, in this version, Gawain wasn't Captain Virgin McPious Pants, and that Reynard made out much better than in the original.) but, the ending didn't sit well with me. It just felt too abrupt and I had to explain to a confused partner that he, in fact, did not get his head lopped off.
It felt like it was a last minute decision. That we will have a cut with an alternative ending. Or that they filmed a much longer ending and the runtime was already going crazy, and rather trim earlier scenes (which omg they really could have used), they decided to go with a Nolan-type ending. Which isn't very Arthurian. They liked their celebratory feasts and gifts. I keep telling everyone (i'm in film school) there is a good movie in this movie--but it is hidden in the bloat.
I feel like it was open ended, obviously in the original poem, he doesn’t die but the movie strays pretty far from the poem. it’s almost like they let the audience decide whether or not he survives.
@@lolitabubbles26 I read in an interview that they did film a scene where Patel gets his head chopped off in the Green Chapel, but they wanted the ending to be more hopeful about his death, and felt people leaving the theatre seeing that would walk away with the wrong emotion. For what it's worth, when our theatre got to the end we burst into incredulous laughter so like... I guess it was an emotion
I felt like the "off with your head" at the end was almost facetious/open ended.
I disagree. It ending was very obvious and simple. If someone was confuse, it wasn't the movie's fault, but the audience. A great happy ending without being disgustingly whimsical and happy.
Gawain (handshake) Lancelot:
Having an 8ft tall sexy nonhuman boyfriend
This comment is so underrated, I love it!
I loved the puppet theatre and loved your retelling of the poem’s story. Excellent insights as always.
"It's only a model."
"Shhh!"
_MPatHG_ dialog aside, i also loved the puppet theatre
i loved seeing tom bombadil in camelot :D
My personal interpretation of the film is that it critiques traditionally masculine roles. Gawain is motivated by notions of honor and glory to go on this quest. His fateful action, chopping the head off the Green Knight, is unnecessarily violent. When he encounters her beheaded girl, he seems to expect a favor in return for his act of kindness. He also fails to help the boy on the battlefield, not out of cowardice, but out of a lack of awareness. Later he lies to The Lady about having a lover despite her having the same face as that lover. All of these are acts, not of cowardice, but of the toxic pursuit of masculine conquest. He is more concerned with obtaining glory than he is in treating the people around him with kindness and respect.
Gawain in the film is being critiqued by the overarching message of the film; he cannot be a wholesome love interest for The Lord for that reason. Gawain is a representation of toxic masculinity, and giving in to his homoerotic impulses would have actually made him more sympathetic. But he's not meant to be sympathetic (in my opinion). He is a satirical representation of all things wrong with toxic masculinity.
The Lord, on the other hand, IS a sympathetic character. He gives Gawain a safe place to stay, and later he kisses him as was agreed upon in their original deal. Gawain runs away as if something horrible has happened. His fear of homoerotic acts paints him in a negative light.
Yes, the themes of the film are different from the source material. But I don't think this particular change is queer erasure. In fact, it's a critic of the homophobia within masculine archetypes.
I agree! I've seen other people point this out too but to me the movie in many ways is a subvesion of the original story while still honoring the original message. So in the story Gawain is basically perfect and acts honorably in every instance except the last one where he gives in to fear. In the film he instead basically fails every challenge set before him due, like you said, to traits associated with toxic masculinity, but learns from each of them and in the end then chooses to be brave and do the honorable thing in honoring their original deal by removing the green belt (the opposite of the original story in which not removing the green girdle is his only act of dishonor). The movie is in this way a mirror to the original story but the end message of Gawain learning that acting with honesty is the morally correct choice stayes the same. In this way because its disnhonest not kissing the Lord is framed as a moral failing on Gawains part in the film, like not acting gay enough is portrayed as a negative thing in this movie! That's not something I think I've ever seen in a mainstream movie before and I have a hard time seeing it as queer erasure, personally. Also I don't interpret the kiss as unrequited, I very much saw it as Gawain leaning into it but running away due to fear over accepting that part of himself. But that's just my interpretation.
I think the movie was about living up to the romantic hero of the original story, myself. Here, Gawain is an indecisive fuckboy, not a knight. He wants honor, but doesn't really know what it means. He can't make a choice about his girlfriend, which comes back around in the vision where he just continues the cycle of doing what a person of high standing is "supposed" to do. Gawain here is an average guy surrounded by legendary heroes, acting as a bystander to a world that's infinitely bigger than him. I read the kissing game as less of a "no homo" thing and more "you won't live up to the honor you seek". If he was truly a knight of honor, he would've refused the Lady or reciprocated the kisses with the Lord, but instead, he does nothing then runs away from his problems. Both situations were super uncomfortable but I think the fear of intimacy in this and the whole movie comes from avoiding "responsibility". The sashes Morgane and the Lady give him both represent a facade and the shame that he has to actively cast off to finally find honor in the game he chose to play.
This! I agree completely. I think this is meant to be a very modern story told via the framework of the original story. The themes of being a young adult and being aimless and at times cowardly along with the desire to have glory without fully earning it and wasting one's potential really spoke to me.
Totally agree, I got the same message from the film, and honestly really enjoyed it. I think this version is very clearly not actually a “retelling” but a deconstructed response to the original story.
Like. Gawain kind of sucks in this. He is just 100% on the run from everything the entire time. Hell, he basically has to be forced to even go uphold his half of the Christmas Game by like... three people. And the whole vision sequence is just showing what an empty, unhappy, and fear-filled life he would have if he just continues to run from everything - responsibility, commitment, compassion, generosity.
Everything he does in this version, he is forced to do, he has to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing: before he helps retrieve that ghost’s head, he asks what he’ll get out of it; he’s ready to ride away from the boy who gives him directions without any thanks or reward at all. This is why the sex scene and the kiss are they way they are in this version imo. The queer undertones of the original just ended up being rather unfortunate in the new context of the story the film was trying to tell.
This isn’t a telling of “Sir Gawain and the Green Knight” so much as it is a deconstruction of the expectations and idealization of heroes, and the meaning of honor. It’s a lot more meta than I think most people were expecting from the marketing of the movie, and I think whether someone enjoys this version relies a lot upon their willingness to think about stories in that sort of way and their expectations coming into the theater.
@@amypatterson7395 Yes, yes, exactly! And that reading is further supported by the parallel portrait painting scenes, with the first portrait of Gawain being an idealization of a "perfect knight", while the second one being the Lady deconstructing that image and showing him how he really is, using camera obscura. There's a lot of meta-dialogue about stories in the movie, too. And in that context, the kiss looks like the Lord is showing Gawain a possibility of a better way ("See? You could have been honorable"). So I didn't see it at all as predatory; Gawain was surprised, true, but to me, it read more as "stunned" than "grossed out". And then, again, he run from the responsibility.
So the choice that Lowery made - to have Gawain doing the first brave thing in his life and ACTUALLY losing his head over it - was very ironic imo, but I loved it in a twisted way. Incidentally, it was Tolkien himself who said in his lecture on Sir Gawain and The Green Knight that the story builds up to Gawain's death, and the 'deus ex machina' ending doesn't fit (he specifically said that the happy ending is a possible Christian influence, while in the old pagan version of the tale, Gawain would have died). I feel like the movie's retelling really leans into that interpretation.
Yeah, I agree. I think the sashes represent "motherly protection" that stops him from from growing up.
I actually love the format of loose retellings of well known tales. The source material being common knowledge gives a lot of room for directors to play around and find their own stories and ideas. The whole process feels very wholesome to me as a Shakespeare nerd that has seen pretty much every adaptation of his stories out there
I am totally cool with the retelling of Arthurian Tales especially. There are about 3-4 historical retellings of the story itself. I don't like the non-con kiss, though. That's where I draw a line. There is a good movie hidden within the bloat of the theatrical cut, though. And it was beautiful.
@@lolitabubbles26 I don't know, I read the kiss as being reciprocated even though he wasn't given explicit consent. The lady on the other hand, did get verbal concent, and yet definitely also sexuality assaulted him.
loose retellings are wonderful, but yet i feel like this one was a play at appeasing the crowds as well. we live in a society that often times, especially in the states, still rejects large portrayals of homosexuality. this movie’s title would possibly attract a demographic that doesn’t support the lgbtq+ community that in large haven’t read this story. they’re simply showing up because it looks like a cool medieval movie. in turn i feel as if the director completely flipped the homo-erotic undertones to avoid conflict with the crowds. personally i feel that this story is very deep rooted in queer culture and to ignore the blatantly obvious context of the story is like a slap in the face to queer audience members looking forward to that aspect.
But then bitch about cultural appropriation on Twitter.... Fuck off and respect tradition.
So what you're telling me is that Sir G is a bi disaster? Ok I'll take that.
You look fabulous in full plate, and the setting is really atmospheric. The breakdown of the story was fascinating.
The comment: “The won’t know how he got it. He could say anything”. It absolutely SLAMMED me. What a masterful burn on the idea of the entire story
“Yeah there’s nothing gay about the original green knight”
Kaz- “bro they talk about his powerful loins”
Just cause you read LGBTQ crap into everything doesn't mean it's actually there...
That's a comment about his horsemanship not sexuality! Knights steer horses with their thighs and loins as they have to use their hands for shield and weapons.
@@eddesa5134
^
The reductionist idea of queerness as having to be explicitly sexual is so dumb just as a general thing BUT in the Middle Ages sex wasnt a thing people wrote and talked about in a very explicit way anyway so... No sexualities represented i guess ??
PLOT TWIST PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE AGES DEPICTED SEX GRAPHICALLY. My favorite discovery about the Middle Ages (in Western Europe at least, I haven't studied many other places) is that they were really frank about sex, including many of our surviving female authors. Penises on trees, vaginas on pilgrim badges, a poem in ode to the vagina (by Gwerful Mechain, if you're curious)... My dude, if you want to read some wild Holy Spirit/Reader fanfic may I recommend the Bridal Mysticism movement because holy shit it's a trip.
(Holy Spirit/Reader fanfic isn't a fully accurate description but mystics like Hildegard of Bingen, Mechtild of Magdeburg, and Hadewijch used eroticism to talk about God, and theology to talk about eroticism. Hildegard of Bingen for example depicted a vulva-shaped map of the universe. She also may have been the earliest recorded author to describe a female orgasm.)
Obviously medieval sexuality and queerness is a complicated topic but I find that even cultures with very harshly-enforced rules about sexuality (i.e. the Victorian era) have lots of places people talk about and explore it, against the rules or not. What's funny to me about the Middle Ages is that respectable, pious _women_ (including literal nuns) could talk about sex with greater explicitness than we in the present day might feel comfortable with. (Bearing in mind I'm a mildly sex-repulsed ace so I might not have an average comfort level with sex, if that exists)
Idk I just think it's really funny and absurd that we have all this respectable smut from the Middle Ages but it still gets remembered as couched in euphemism, which, it was in some ways, but definitely not all the time.
as a gay acearo im so happy you mentioned us ! so many queer narratives focus so heavily on sex or romance and not on other things, more cultural things, that make us who we are. its hard to find something engaging about queer experiences thats not also super uncomfortable to digest due it being so focused on their sex/dating life. but frankly a lot of media has that problem.
EXACTLY!!! this is just how i feel
9:20. I don't think it's certain that he died at the end. It seemed to be open to interpretation. Either the Knight actually chopped off his head or he was being playful with Gawain. The way he said "And now, off with your head" sounded more like a joke to me than anything, especially considering the Knight's tone and facial expression.
"And now, be off, with your head."
Same I didn’t know people thought he died til this video. I thought the knight was being cute and telling him he could go w/ his head
29:15: Notice that Gawain is chatting with Galehaut, because Galehaut is another Arthurian character who invites queer readings. To summarize, he started as a rival king to Arthur, but asked to join Arthur's court on the condition that he could befriend Lancelot. The exact nature of his feelings for Lancelot are...up to interpretation. After all, an intense feeling of friendship is an extremely straight reaction to seeing a hot knight you've never talked with.
7:30: The version I heard suggests that Morgan was hoping the shock of seeing the headless Green Knight get up and grab his head would kill Guinevere on the spot. (It didn't work.)
15:55: Or when they called themselves gay, they meant something entertainingly different.
A bi- asexual here 👋🏾 I'm very disappointed with most of the changed aspects of this film. I too read the poem my sophomore year in college and fell in love with the story. While the craftsmanship, acting, cinematography, etc. is stunning, I am still left a little upset with the director. Sir Gawain is tbh a queer (possibly bi) icon and deserved nothing less :/
Exactly. I was excited about this movie (i mean, have you SEEN Dev Patel??) but the straightwashing ruined it for me.
If you can't see what's iconic about the changes made in the adaptation from the original than I think you failed to understand the original poem. Gawain in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was constructed to be a representation of what not to be... Gawain was not chivilarous. He was not knightly. He was a mockery. From beginning to end. He wears the green sash and conforms into the Arthurian patriarchy. In the film, Gawain tosses it aside. He would rather have his head cut off than become what his mother and Arthur want him to be. He doesn't play their game. it's subtle but it's very beautiful.
@@GoatHouseCreative Or how about there are multiple possible interpretations of both the film and the extremely old original text and you can offer yours without being pretentious or condescending about it 🤗
Why, because he kissed bertilak a few times?
@@GoatHouseCreative no, he throws away the sash to become the man his mother and Arthur wished him to be. His mother summoned and organized the green knight game.
I really liked the scenes because I read both of those scenes as sexual tension with both characters and it seemed like an older bi couple trying to seduce a younger man. I didn't get a homophobic vibe in the movie I got a vibe like Gawain is running from intimacy and his own attraction to both of them.
I wrote a very legnthy reply and my computer decided to delete it. but I still want to say something.
I am a little sick and dyslexic so please try to read around the errors haha. I agree that both scenes have sexual tension within them but I felt they did not mirror eachother well enough to give the gay kiss enough weight. The origional had the benifit of many kisses that this film did not show and a confusing lack of gift giving that could have started earlier in their interaction. (the book and portrait for instance) Over all what gave me a sick feeling was the way he did not seem as genuinly fearful of the woman when she had esencially sexually assaulted him. The reaction to the wife and husband was different. Furthur upsetting me was that the homoerotism and hetaroerotisim are not equal within the movie. There is plenty of time given to look at him and the women he is with but there is no sexual gaze at the men of the film even the ones the poem seems so fixated on. (who end up being the same man)
Right. I didn't get that he was having a gay panic moment, but that he has issues with commitment and intimacy. He has to give himself to the Green Knight completely. He wasn't able to give himself to his girlfriend, he couldn't give himself to Lord or Lady Bertilak, even in the flash forward he realized if he ran away he would never be able to give himself to anyone or any role. He had to be willing to give himself to the Green Knight fully to acknowledge and overcome his intimacy issues.
@@iamthewatergod I also did not get a gay panic vibe from the film. Though I do wish the queerness was more closely aligned to the source.
Jesus LGBTQ are ruining stories...
i felt the same way about the Illiad 😭 not enough about Achilles and Patroclus’ relationship. I need more books like TSOA
I loved this story in school. I didn't know they had made a movie of it. Yes, I live under a rock. I hope that someone makes a great true to the story movie version of The Green Knight.
It came out a month ago and only recently became available through streaming :)
It is not the only movie about it. Back in the eighties, there was another one (produced for TV) with Sean Connery as the Green Knight.
"Hey, we saw you from across the castle and we dig your vibe"
I'm glad you brought up the erasure of asexuality that's so common. I'm aroace, and I see myself in aspects of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. While I'm sure it was also a pushback against the conventions of French romance and supposed to show Gawain as devoted to his knighthood and Christianity above romantic connections...that scene where Lady Bertilak asks Gawain to talk to her of love and he basically tells her he has no idea what to say? Relatable.
I have to say three things to this video: first, I haven't seen the movie; second, I love the fact that you uploaded it on the day of my birthday; and third, how much resources can a girl have for medieval videos? Like, you have an armor, a wood castle and amazing knowledge. I'm, at the very least, surprised. And maybe in love, can't decide yet.
Happy Birthday!
Huge loss for humanity for Dev Patel to not be able to play a bi/ queer hero
Haven't watched the movie yet, just here for the discussion! I'm fascinated that a poem from the middle ages is MORE gay than a movie made in 2021.
Sooo bummed that we didn’t get some more steamy Dev Patel gay romance to be honest just saying that’s what I was excited about along with all the pretty visuals
Because some people are arguing kissing was less inherently associated with romance back then: male-on-male kissing in SGGK is not kissing in greeting. In context, it is specifically that Gawain is tasked with giving Lord Bertilak everything he receives in the castle. Because Gawain receives romantic kisses from Lady Bertilak, he must give Lord Bertilak romantic kisses. This is unusual and is clearly distinct from traditional greetings.
Yeah, the "we can't prove x historical/literary figure wqs querer, so let's declare with certainty that it wasn't at all" argument.
I remember a king of Aragon being forced to marry the queen of Castille but openly stating the prospect was not of his taste because, according to him, a warrior like him only enjoyed bleeding men, fighting men, talking with men and enjoying their company, so "what enjoyment" asked him "could a man like me take from the body and company of a woman?".
His wife tried to convince him otherwise, but it ended in her being quite horrified by whatever happened in their marital chamber, leading to separation, which he seemed to have loved.
Obviously, according to historians (especially Spanish historians, Spain being so conservative), there is absolutely no way any of taking any of this as showing him to, at the very least, be either into some proto-bdsm or asexual or gay.
Yes if we all just subscribed to the school of sex kink reductionism and wishful thinking with no evidence things would be so much better.
You remember a King of Aragon. Because you were there. No one would deny homosexuality and eroticism have always existed. But in this poem? There is none.
I need more people to know that the director cut out a whole DAY from the final version. There are promotional photos of the lady in a white dress both outside with Gwaine and also indoors so they shot multiple scenes for that day. INCLUDING one where the husband hunts a giant boar and carves it up in front of Gwaine and i kid you not -- gifts him its heart. There is a behind a scenes photo of Dev Patel holding it with glee. There was a whole love story lost here, and instead replaced with just... assault.
As a medieval philologist, I want to emphasise a thing: kissing on the lips between men was a ritual gesture that mimicked Jesus kissing his disciples (their bible was a little different from ours lol). There are records of Charle Magne kissing his knights when they took service in his court, and in many romance en prose there are references to this praxis. Unfurtunally no homoeroticism behind it, just a ritual gesture from a culture that is very far from us. I'm not trying to erease any gay subtext from the original material, but to be honest Gawain kissing the Lord is not gay at all lol. If you want to read more on the matter I suggest researching "ritual court gestures in Middle Age courts" (I would provide more references from my books of study but they are all in italian, sorry)
This might be true in other contexts, but consider that the kisses Gawain gives Lord Bertilak are not merely court ritual but a replication of the explicitly erotic kisses that Lady Bertilak gives Gawain.
For neophytes in medieval history/gesture who just haven't taken this into account, or who just don't know this ....
I thought she made a good case for ''homoeroticism'' in this era. Which did not exclusively mean that the men were gay but she did mention this very fleetingly. So, i'm willing to explore the theme of queerness in this particular instance because of the matched intensity of the kisses Sire Gauvain was supposed to give 'The Lord., even though i'm not entirely convinced by her argumentation. But good job nonetheless.
For neophytes in medieval history/gesture who just haven't taken this into account, or who just don't know this ....
I thought she made a good case for ''homoeroticism'' in this era. Which did not exclusively mean that the men were gay but she did mention this very fleetingly. So, i'm willing to explore the theme of queerness in this particular instance because of the matched intensity of the kisses Sire Gauvain was supposed to give 'The Lord., even though i'm not entirely convinced by her argumentation. But good job nonetheless.
@@drzennAvian not sure if by "She" you mean me, but as you and @Patrick Davies Jones stated I understand that, since the kissing was an explicit mimick of a kiss between a man and a woman, the theme of queerness can and should be taken into account. However I'd like to propose another interpretration, that doesn't necesserely esclude the One presented in the essay, and that Is that often in chivarly romances even the kisses between a man and a woman have a ritual undertone. Let's take for example the kiss between Lancelot and Guinevre in the Lancelot en Prose, where the kiss on the lips during the meeting with Galheout is explicitly considered the start of the "service d'amour", no different than Lancelot's first knighting.
My point is: kisses on the lips where no big deal, ppl from the middleages made out all the time, and their culture was far more ""promiscous"" and fluid than what we Imagine (Just think about Merlin and their "sex changes" all through Artrurian myths).
I figured just as much, considering men kissing both sides of cheeks as greetings is a thing in Italy and France id assume such practices with variations across medieval Europe would bare some similarity to the on discussed in the green knight
Doing a video in full armor is true dedication to your craft 🙌
I always enjoy your reflections and vastly admire the amount of research you do. Thank you!
Great video, Kaz! It's always interesting to see how past perspectives on queerness differed from our own. I'm really glad you made a video examining medieval queerness-a few friends and I are writing a vaguely medieval-inspired fantasy story (honestly just for the fun of it, at this point), and especially when including queer characters, it's hard to separate modern ideas of queerness from historical ones. Thanks for so much food for thought!
(also you weren't kidding about the author describing the green knight's loins, huh)
I'm so happy I found you on KRplus. You are wonderful and I learn so much on your channel. Thank you for the love and effort you put into these videos❤
Omg the historical art as puppets for the story??? 😍😍😍😍😍 You're a genius
Why did I only just recently find you? You’re such an incredibly gifted teacher! I love your videos and I’m going to go binge them now.
I was one of the people who loved the movie, in large part due to how gorgeous it was and the structure, but I also feel a very similar way about how it works as an adaptation. I think it is a stretch to call the movie's sir Bertilak predatory, (especially given the fact that Gawain does not seem disgusted in the scene so much as uncomfortable with a potential attraction) but the fact they inserted so much heterosexuality into Gawain's story really rubbed me the wrong way.
As a character, the movie's Sir Gawain feels queer to me in a way I find difficult to explain. I guess it is the fact he is kind of outside of the society he is a part of and spends a lot of time with sex workers. Also the scene where Arthur apologizes for never really getting to know him and tries to make an effort, feel kind of like reconciliation with a formerly homophobic relative. I agree so hard that it would have been the perfect time to make an explicitly, undeniably gay version of this story and it makes me kind of sad that we didn't get it, and instead only got subtext of Gawain's potential queerness, with plenty of women around for plausible deniability.
I love what the movie is, but I am also heartbroken over what it wasn't. I am a lesbian, not a queer man, but to have such an artistic and fairy-tale like story be queer would have felt so special.
I feel alienated by many queer movies (which is not to say they aren't good, I love many of them) because they are just so different from what I love in movies. To have a movie like the green knight be gay would have meant the world to me.
Completely agree with you! No matter how many times I watch the kiss scene I just don't see any disgust from Gaiwan at all. While feeling a little predatory with the lord being above him on his horse it also felt like the most real and tender moment of attraction in this whole movie.
This is such a great essay on the film. Like many other baby gays this story really got me when I first read it in high school and has always been near and dear to my heart.
Honestly I had zero expectations for this adaptation actually portraying the gift exchange game, but I was still gobsmacked by how the adaptation managed to make things /worse/ in the film by what crumbs were left in than it would have by cutting it completely.
Even though the game is presented in the film it's immediately discarded, and the very uncomfortable scene with Lady Bertilak and Gawain is completely incongruous with the kiss between Lord Bertilak and Gawain. Not only does the Lord take the kiss rather than receive, but the framing of it as 'taking what Gawain received' doesn't make any sense because the Lady and Gawain never exchanged a kiss? It felt like a scene that you had to fill in the blanks from if you had the context of the poem and just felt messy and poorly executed.
I've seen so many people praising this film as 'omg yaaas bi rep' and it baffles me that one predatory kiss that the hero literally runs away from is worthy of praise by some folks? What?
And what you said about the film turning it from a movie about honesty into one about cowardice is spot on and really left a sour taste in my mouth, the whole ending sequence just absolutely spoiled the story and feels more regressive than the original poem both thematically and in it's portrayal of queerness which is just sad.
This movie is truly gorgeous but it's really just a beautiful veneer over a very boring 'listless young man goes out on a hero's journey' with an ending that sends a baffling message that amounts to 'man up and die'.
Kaz you’re so galaxy brained for 15:00 - 16:27, like I always subconsciously understood the reasons and significance and validity of queer reading of old texts, but I could never explain it properly or justify why exactly it was valid, I just really felt it was, now thanks to you I can truly explain why and how it’s actually valid.
Thank you for your service, you expanded my mind today🫡🙇🏻♀️
Long comment but... I just watched the movie and wrote a whole five page rant about what I disliked about the movie and shared with my friends in facebook lol and the subject of the kisses in the original poem came up in discussion, obviously.
I really like to think the poem navigates between:
-Gawain's own curiosity towards the Lord who' he finds attractive and is sexually available without (apparently) any real social consequences
-The fact that the Lord is also very obviously a non human creature who's possibly a fae and is his host and who he has to respect in accordance to the rules of hospitality,
-How this all conflicts Gawain's masculinity and mandatory heterosexuality as well as his Christian values where magic and the fae aren't acceptable,
And
-His fear of death, which makes very understandable that he accepted the sash, but is not acceptable according to the rules of chivalry.
I really love this poem btw if you can't already tell lmao So the movie disappointed me because the part I was really looking forward was the game (which is the coolest part of the poem), and I ended up falling asleep in the first half of the movie and wondering why did the girl in the hut and the other nasty scavenger boy took so much screen time and why did all the sex scenes had to be so uncomfortable and ugly. The tale of a knight who learns the value of honesty was switched into a bad GoT type narrative imo.
But it looks really cool tbh
ok wait this video was awesome, i have so many thoughts on this, it was all so cool. first of all oh my god the puppet retelling of the legend is my new favorite thing EVER, i would watch the hell out of a myth anthology filmed like that. second, Napoleon's Button's is a FANTASTIC book, it was required reading for a chemistry class i took and i highly recommend. thirdly, it is SO COOL to learn about how queerness was viewed throughout history because 99% of the time is is totally different from what everyone thinks it is, so thank you so much for talking about that (also goodness every video of yours i watch i get exponentially gayer)
I found this video completely by accident, checked your channel, and I just fell in love with your overall style and very interesting topics
Can't wait to watch more !
Your channel is essentially every topic I researched in my English lit degree and I love it 🔥
The production value of this video is stellar 😆
Kaz, I love you. I was laughing, crying and amazed. Thank you!
I went to see this with my boyfriend in the theater; it's the first film we've seen in the theater since Sonic the Hedgehog a year and a half ago. About 30 minutes in he leaned over and said, "This feels like a homework assignment." So far he's been right.
would you ever do a video about achilles and patroclus? love this video btw
I love your videos so much, they are so informative!!! I wish there were more, I binge watched them all!
This is so cool! I hadn’t read the poem and was honestly so surprised that they kissed that I didn’t even register Gawain’s reaction, so it’s super interesting to see everyone’s take on it :)
GREATLY enjoyed the puppet show. the green knight's head coming off was so cleanly done
Your research is startling and I love it and your presentations.
I thought it was obvious that Gawain doesn't die at the end of the film. Not only does the Green Knight affectionately hold his face, smile, and say "off with your head" while pointing away (as in, "go off, with your head intact"), but the film includes a post-credits scene that pretty unequivocally establishes that Gawain survives.
I’ve been binge watching all of your videos since last night and I gotta say, I seriously love how you dress up according to the topic of your videos (and your videos as a whole ofc), especially this one lmao
So we read Gawain and the green knight in high school, except for the part about Gawain in the castle with the lady and lord and the homoeroticism, and like of course they just said it was for length purposes, and my teacher just gave us a quick summary of the section and told us to read that part on our own if we liked the story overall, and of course, I never did even though I actually wanted too but back then I had so much homework and stress about homework that I never got to it. Now it makes sense why they "really" cut that part out of the curriculum. I still haven't read that part and now I know the spoilers so I probably won't but now I actually want to read the whole thing again!
Anyway. Loved this video as always, you are the best and you make history/historical stuff really fun, enjoyable, and informative!
I'm writing an essay about queerness in renaissance painting and I'm going to reference your discussion about the validity of finding queer experience in history! I've come across soooo many articles and essays blasting queer theory and queer historians for arguing for the queerness in painting and history from the middle ages and the renaissance and its EXHAUSTING. your argument is amazing and it put into words exactly what I want to express but was finding difficulty doing so. being a queer historian is both so rewarding and so exhausting!
This is a fascinating take and I love it. I read the poem a long time ago and I seem to remember a scene where Gawain is asked “what did you learn?” And he responded “Don’t trust women?” And got the shocked response of “what? No. You lied, don’t blame that on women. The lesson is don’t lie”. Does anyone else remember a scene like that?
this video is so well done! wonderful set, production, analysis!! i personally loved the movie as someone who had zero knowledge of the poem but now i wish lowery had done the original themes justice. i also liked the ambiguity of the film's ending, either way you choose to interpret it, it's a satisfying coming-of-age story.
Well no wonder Gawain rebuffed Lady Bertilak’s advances. “Look, Lady, I reeeeally want to, but anything we do here I’ve got to do with your husband later! Albeit, I must admit he is quite hunky. No, no, get your lips off there!”
Just want to say thank you for being one of the few people I’ve seen on the internet talking about how vastly different from the original poem this film was! I read multiple reviews before seeing saying the opposite. Very disappointed by the absence of the full kissing game.
That puppet theatre was glorious and I want to see it again
fantastic analysis! thank you for sharing!
Interestingly, both meetings with Bertilak (in the castle and as the Green Knight) mirror each other, being about giving and receiving, taking an active, more aggressive and the opposite, passive role. (Modern English pun intended: Dealing and receiving "blows".) Or more reduced: They offer two moments to prove if/how much Gawain sticks to his word.
I’ve been waiting all day to watch this after work !
imma say it. this is absolutely my favourite channel on youtube
I love that Tom Bombadil is hiding in the corner of the castle. Love it. Loved this video!
I love your variety of costumes!!! The fact that you make them yourself is even more awesome!!!
This is such a good topic for discussion thank you for making this
It makes me disappointed in humans that this channel doesn't have 1mil+
I recently found your videos, and have been kind of binging them lol. I find you really engaging, and your content is very intriguing.
PUPPET THEATRE!!! I'm so pleased. Thank you -- excellent video, as always!
I just remember the movie Sword of the Valiant in which Sean Connery speaks of trading a "blow for a blow" while wearing green glitter armour and a tiara while bending over suggestively.
Thank you so much for this video! I haven't seen the movie or heard the original story so when I heard there was controversy about the directors choice of "avoiding queer stuff" (didn't know what was removed or changed at all) I was like hmmm I really want to figure out what the deal is with the Green Knight. This is so well done! I love the paper doll story so much!
This was a fantastic analysis of the themes in the original poem, especially with regards to medieval queerness. While I generally liked the new movie, especially the contrast between Christian superstition and the natural world, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that the poem's original themes were abandoned, and now, having watched your video, I gotta say I'm mourning the loss of potentially exploring the differences between modern and older forms of queer behavior between men. An excellent video, and it honestly just makes me want to watch the movie again.
I wasn't entirely familiar with the source material before seeing the movie but I absolutely loved the movie. I was really excited to see someone had made another video essay about the movie adaptation because I can't stop thinking about it lol. Really great analysis, I loved this perspective
This may be the best summary of the text. IDC about the film. Thank you so much 🥰💚😂
did not expect this to get so deep wow. love your work!!
Your channel is everything ❤️ Subscribed!
I've seen most of your videos Kaz and really enjoy them. This is my first time chiming in here. I too also thought The Green Knight was visually gorgeous. It's an exquisite film. I loved the score also. And Dev Patel is also quite nice on the eyes. I liked the story for the most part. It was a slow burn for sure.
I'm Gay and agree with most of your sentiments about this film, but also there are moments with some of what you said that just sounds like a young Queer person being defensive because the disappointment of not getting the representation we want or depiction we want is too unpleasant. Just because something hurts our feelings doesn't make it wrong, or homophobic, or things of that nature. Our feelings get hurt for all sorts of reasons and sometimes they have nothing to do with what is in the present moment, but rather because it reminds of us of something else.
I want to say something that might be uncomfortable for a lot of us Queer people to read: "it's important to know when we're being defensive and perceiving anything but praise as a negative". There's a difference between "anti-Queer" and something just not being Queer.
When I saw the scene when Gawain is kissed by the Lord of the castle I didn't take it as homophobic or disgust, he seemed more taken off-guard & scared because he knows there's something mysterious happening among them. He also got sexual with his wife, it would be expected for him to be easily thrown off by anything from the Lord, especially him also now putting the moves on him. ("Why is this couple so horny for me??")
I didn't see the film as anti-sexual, I saw it as an honest depiction of how immature Gawain is and his struggle/need for growth. When I left the movie I said to my (also Gay) friend how much I liked how not-macho Gawain and Arthur were. They were so tender and intimate with each other.
It would have been great for it to be more Queer, but I don't feel it to be scene as anti-Queer by the choices Lowery made. It's just more "Straight" and that's not an attack, it's just something different.
Also, I love that armor of yours too! :)
can I just say that I absolutely LOVE the background in this video, it is absolutely beautiful
we were waiting for this!